Starter leads required

[watchman]

Hi evrybody

Have been busy on my research, reading books etc BUT have now come to a bit of a stall and was hoping you could give me a push in the right direction.

2/6 South Stafford Reg was disbanded 1918 into other battalions.

Was my grandad one of the men that got relocated ?

Family stories have him wounded during the Kaisers battle 1918?

I have got the diaries for 2/6th and there is no mention of where the men went after disbanding.

Is there a list of wounded returned to England??

Do the companies of 2/6th each have seperatre dairies that would give me a clue??

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am totally stumped.

Thanks

Andrew

[Max]

Andrew

The best way to find out if your grandad was re-allocated is to check out his MIC, or better still the medal rolls proper

Andy

[watchman]

Max

Thanks for suggestion BUT

I have copies of both the Index card and the Medal Roll

The only Remarks are

Typed

Re-enlisted Scots Guards 12-3-20. no.20089

Handwritten

Not claimed by Scots Grds medals to be issued from this roll. Auth 7/101 022???3

You will see from the attachment there does not appear to be any other info

The actual roll mirrors the same info

Any more leads would be great

Andrew

[watchman]

Hi

Just thought I would add how I know he was part of the relocated men.

If you look at the attachment under paragraph 11. Have you every served........

[Max]

Hello Andrew

I read it as "Yes, No. 260139 Pte. South Staffordshire Regt. Disembodied 26/5/19. Also served in 7th London Regt, 100th ____ Battn & Cambs Regt. Service 4 years 22 days."

This at least shows that you are right and that he had service with several different regiments and was underage when he joined up

Andy

[watchman]

Hi

Yes Max you are right, the missing world I belive to be "Prov", short for Provisional, and the word Battn is Bath

I am stumped how can I follow the movements of dear grandad from being disbanded from 2/6th South Staffordshires to having served in the 7th London and 100th Prov Bath and Cambridge Regt.

I have tried to search on the 100th Provisional Bath and Cambridge but drawn a complete blank.

It has been sugested that the 7th London were in the Uk and that may support the rumors that he was wounded. Perhaps he stayed in the Uk after recovering from wound???

Based on that susgestion he went from 2/6 to 100th was wounded and then the 7th.

Perhaps anybody with any simular research difficulties could give me a pointer??

thanks for your interest

Andrew

[Graham Stewart]

Andrew,

This might not be of much use to you, but the Provisional Battalions were formed in March 1915 from the physically unfit, or those unwilling to serve overseas.

The 100th Provisional Battalion was formed in June 1915 from Home Service personnel of the Territorial Force, and served with 212th Bde/71st Division.

On 1/1/1917 while at Guildford it amalgamated with the 102nd Provisional Bn to form the 29th(City of London)Bn, London Regt(T.F.).

By March 1917 the 29th Bn, London Regt were at Colchester and by the summer of 1917 had moved to St.Osyth to serve in 226th Bde. By Jan 1918 it had moved to Clacton and was still serving in 226th Bde when it was disbanded on 14/7/1919.

May I suggest that he went from the 7th London to 100th Provisional Bn then one of the home service battalions of the Cambridgeshire Regt and then to the 2/6th Staffs. This may account for why no other units appear on his MIC or Medal Roll Sheet.

Regards,

Graham.

[watchman]

Graham

Firstly thank you for your suggestions, I must admit that i have'nt looked at the units in served in the other way around.

I have a number, that I belive to be a pre war number for grandad which is 4134.

The South Staffordshire Regimental Museum suggest that this number was issued prior to the great war and his number 260132 was issued as he went to war.

You suggestion does raise a thought, would the medal roll be for the regiment he started with or finished with. ( I have a copy of the medal roll from the 2/6th SStaffs medal roll book)

Do you know if there is a way to check the four digit number in relation to a regiment.

I have just relised i could be way off track.

Thanks again

Andrew

[Graham Stewart]

Andrew,

It's very likely that the four figure number is an early T.F. number which were eventually replaced in 1917. What I have to ask is does your grandfather originate from London? If so then then the number is probably that of the 7th London, which he would have kept while serving with 100th Prov Bn.

On transfer to the Cambridgeshire he would have received a number belonging to them and again it would have been a four figure T.F. number. The process would have been repeated again on joining the S/Staffs, but in 1917 it would have been changed to six figures.

All battalions kept Nominal Rolls, Sick Lists, Part I & Part II Orders and so on, but it seems very few survived WWI for some strange reason. I'm actually suprised that more detail wasn't with his Scots Guards service papers which would have helped. You may have to go in search of early London Regiment archive material to see if anything of theirs survived that would help.

I take it there was no four figure number on the S/Staffs Medal Roll sheet?

Graham.

[Kevin Lynott]

Hows this for a theory, maybe he never left the SStaffs.

the 2/6th were reduced to a training cadre on 9/5/18, the training cadre was posted to the 66th Div on 30/5/18, and then absorbed into the 1/6th SStaffs on 31/7/18, was he part of the training cadre?

Kevin

[Graham Stewart]

Kevin,

If there is no four figure number to accompany six figure number on the S/Staffs medal roll sheet, then it would appear to me that he never reached the S/Staffs until after the new six figure number was issued in 1917.

The new six figure numbers issued to the 6th S/Staffs in 1917 were 240001 - 265000 and they would have been shared between the 1/6th & 2/6th. Those lads who had been serving with the S/Staffs prior to these new numbers would have had a four figure number, which would have appeared on both the MIC & Medal Roll Sheets with their new six figure numbers.

So if he has a four figure number and it doesn't belong to the S/Staffs, you have to determine who it belonged to. As with all the Medal Roll Sheets I've ever seen you never, if rarely ever see any units listed with whom you served with at home.

I'm still going with the theory 7th London, 100th Prov Bn, Cambridgeshire & finally 2/6th S/Staffs.

Graham.

[watchman]

Graham/Kevin

Again thanks for your comments. It looks like I have been paddling up the wrong creak!!!

My Grandfather was born in london and lived at Shepards Bush.

I have based my studies on the following

A letter from the War Office telling my Grandad that he could have replacement medals if he signed a declaration

On the form he declared that he was entitled to the General and Victory Medal as service number 4134 Private 2/6th South Staffordshires.

Further stating that on the rim of the medal should be PTE FG Smith No 4134 2nd/6th South Staffs Regt.

This is backed up by the medals which I have, BUT the number on the rim is 260139.

I then searched the medal rolls and found the number 260139 on the index and South Staffs roll.

I then assumed that at the disbanding of the South Staffs he had gone to the other regiments, BUT now I think this is not correct. O ******!!

Your suggestion of starting in London 7th seems more likely as I could'nt work out how he got to Staffordshire to enlist.

If it had not been for the declaration form I wou;ld have never known about the four digit number and the same for the Scots Guards paperwork with regard to 7thLondon etc.

I did ask the guards if they had any of his war service papers but they have stated that no.

Graham

My Grandad stated that he was at an action that saw all but two of the battalion "wiped out" and that he took refuge in a burnt out church from which he liberated a small woodern cross (4" tall) and kept as a lucky charm. Only to be stolen in 1980 by a house thief.

You suggest that the regiments did not go to France???

O Well back to the drawing board.

Andrew

[Graham Stewart]

Andrew,

Don't despair at least we've now established that he did have a four figure S/Staffs number as well as his new six figure number. Why it was never entered into the Medal Roll Sheet or MIC is a new to me, because I've always found both numbers when dealing with N/land Fusiliers. So at least he was with the S/Staffs probably before January 1917.

The 7th Bn, London Regt was to eventually provide three battalions 1/7th, 2/7th & 3/7th Bn's, London Regt.

The 1/7th Bn landed at Le Harve with 2nd London Division 18/3/15.

2/7th Bn embarked for France with 58th(2/1st London)Division on 20/1/17.

3/7th Bn was formed early 1915 and became the 7th(Reserve)Bn on 8/4/1916, and never left the UK.

Your grandad probably served with one of these battalions, but didn't go overseas with them, and for one reason or another was transferred to 100th Provisional Bn, which was made up of those who were physically unfit or unwilling to serve.

From there he was transferred to one of the Cambridgeshire Bn's, but which one as you have the 2/1st Bn, 3/1st Bn & 4/1st Bn to chose from. From here he was transferred to the 2/6th S/Staffs, probably sometime in 1916.

Sadly there is so little to go on regarding his movements. You'll have to just plug away and hopefully you make get a lucky break.

Graham.

[watchman]

Thanks Graham

You have given me some pointers to start.

Andrew

[Kevin Lynott]

Graham,

Doh, thanks for your full explanation about the four TF numbering etc. Numbering seems to be as much of a subject to grasp as anything else about WWI.

Kevin

[Graham Stewart]

Kev,

It would seem that I owe you an apology, as Andrew informed me that his grandfather had a four figure S/Staffs number which was 4134, then 260139. The only reason that I can think of as to why it doesn't appear on his Medal Roll Sheet is because that six figure number was the number on the nominal roll when the 2/6th landed at Le Harve on 25/2/1917.

I have quite a bit of information on numbering, so if you want it for your own records send me a PM with your e.mail address.

Regards,

Graham.