Immigrants

[Fred W]

Do any of the Forum members know if any German immigrants served in the British army during WW1?

Fred

[PFF]

See Hellfire Corner website-among the stories is that of a Australian-German who

was killed World War I-cant remember if he was an immigrant or not

[Clive Maier]

My uncle Oscar Maier was born in Nuremberg of a Swiss father and German mother. I don’t yet know when he came to England but I think it was around 1895 when he would have been four or five years old. He is listed on the 1901 census as a foreign subject. I don’t know whether he was regarded then as Swiss or German. He joined the West Kent Yeomanry, was drafted to the 13th Battalion of the Middlesex Regiment and was killed in the German counter attack on Delville Wood on 31 August 1916. By that time, I believe he would have been regarded as English and I am fairly sure the family was pretending his mother was Swiss to protect her from unpleasantness or internment.

[Myrtle]

My uncle Oscar Maier was born in Nuremberg of a Swiss father and German mother. I don’t yet know when he came to England but I think it was around 1895 when he would have been four or five years old. He is listed on the 1901 census as a foreign subject. I don’t know whether he was regarded then as Swiss or German. He joined the West Kent Yeomanry, was drafted to the 13th Battalion of the Middlesex Regiment and was killed in the German counter attack on Delville Wood on 31 August 1916. By that time, I believe he would have been regarded as English and I am fairly sure the family was pretending his mother was Swiss to protect her from unpleasantness or internment.

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Clive

I believe you will find that your uncle's mother would have been regarded as Swiss. At that time a woman took on her husband's nationality on marriage so your uncle would have been regarded as having Swiss parentage, although born in Germany. Robert Grave's mother was German and his father was Irish. He, as you know served in the RWF as an officer, as his mother's nationality was officially that of her husband

On the other hand, when a soldier's mother was English and his father German, both parents would be considered tha father's nationality i.e. German

Myrtle

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Herman Arlt,son of a German Tobacconist & His German Wife,Of Wisbech Cambridgeshire,Served with the Territorials & served Overseas with the 6th [service] Battalion The Northamptonshire Regiment,to whom his TEFM is Impressed{Even though it is a Service NOT TF Battalion}

[Myrtle]

Herman Arlt,son of a German Tobacconist & His German Wife,Of Wisbech Cambridgeshire,Served with the Territorials & served Overseas with the 6th [service] Battalion The Northamptonshire Regiment,to whom his TEFM is Impressed{Even though it is a Service NOT TF Battalion}

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Helen Arlt, Herman's mother was born in Wisbech but as explained above, she would have become German on her marriage to Otto.

[Clive Maier]

Clive

I believe you will find that your uncle's mother would have been regarded as Swiss. At that time a woman took on her husband's nationality on marriage so your uncle would have been regarded as having Swiss parentage ...

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Myrtle,

Thanks for that. What would have been Oscar's nationality if his parents were not married? At the moment, I don't know their status either when Oscar was born or later.

[Sue Light]

Clive

I don't know whether it's relevant or not, but have you ever looked for naturalisation papers? If you search the NA Catalogue with 'Maier' as the search term, and 'HO' as the series code, I wonder if any of the results are 'yours.'

Or perhaps you've already trodden that path!

Sue

[Myrtle]

Myrtle,

Thanks for that. What would have been Oscar's nationality if his parents were not married? At the moment, I don't know their status either when Oscar was born or later.

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Clive

I don't know how the German authorities would have viewed the child's nationality in this case. Maybe one of our German Pals can help on this one.

Myrtle

[Clive Maier]

Myrtle,

Thanks again. We will see what develops.

Sue,

Thanks. I had not thought of naturalisation because there was never the slightest mention of it in the family. But my father said very little about his family, and I never knew my grandparents. If it were not for the census, I would not know about Oscar’s birthplace.

I feel I should return the thread to the search for German immigrants serving in the British army. Any more examples?

[ATM]

I remember a part in Tommy by Richard Holmes where he mentions in one cemetary a German who died in a Scottish regiment. I will look it up after.

[Guest lidzy]

Hello Fred!

During my research into the 3rd Battalion London Regiment I came across a L/Cpl William Schonbeck of that regiment, who died in June 1916 at Gommecourt. On the 1901 census I can only find one "William Schonbeck", living in St. Pancras, with parents who are listed as German subjects.

There are also a few other likely names in the regiment that I haven't checked on the census - Kallmeier, Kahrman, Kohle - to give a few.

Hope this helps,

All the best,

Tony

[BeppoSapone]

There has been at least one thread on this topic recently. Someone will be able to give full details but, IIRC, at least one Battalion/Company of the Royal Fusiliers was comprised of "Germans".

[Jim_Grundy]

There was certainly one son of German parents who served with the British army who lived locally to me (near Nottingham). However, this did not stop his sister being hounded out of her job as a school teacher in 1917! Some parents were threatening to withdraw their children in protest at allowing them to be "taught by a German"!

Jim

[jhill]

Yes, we have discussed similar topics before. One of these treads is here .

As an illustration of complications which inevitably ensued, here is an article from the Edmonton Bulletin of January 7, 1915. Presumably the fellows involved are these:

" ORDERS BY LIEUT-GENERAL E.A.H.ALDERSON, C.B.,

Commanding First Canadian Contingent.

The Bustard,

24th November, 1914.

GENERAL sTAFF.

. . . SNIP, SNIP, . . .

The Following men were discharged from Nov.

17th. under K.R.&.O.para (xxv) and returned to

Canada:-

S.J. Vaughan. Heavy Battery.

J.S.Lane 1st battalion.

C.Korthals. 2nd "

M.Dennis. 5th "

- Voycheskin. 5th "

S.A.Nicklas. 6th "

S.F.Fittinger.8th "

T.Priggo 8th "

K.Korkajon. 15th "

N.Odinski. 9th "

P.Murphy. 9th "

P.Wolski. 9th "

A.George. 9th "

G.Aktor. 9th "

R.Anlauf. 9th "

J.Duski. 10th "

Jas.Strausbaugh. Ammn. Column.

P.August. 2nd Battalion.

W.A.Brod. 5th "

L.Epstein. 5th "

W.H.Neuhofel. 6th "

W.G.Frank. 8th "

N.Schmidt. 8th "

K.Wirth. 8th "

S.Waurynechek 9th "

W.Malicuch. 9th "

M.Botschenski.9th "

P.Yirch. 9th "

S.Kitt. 9th "

F.Toth. 9th "

J.Broski. 10th "

-.Belecki. 10th "

. . . "

I have tried to look some of these up. Most are not found in the Canadian "Soldiers of the First World War" database. Most of those that are, were born in Germany, Austria, or the United States. Most of these fellows were with the 9th Battalion, which was recruited in my neck of the woods. It seems that when they were attested at Valcartier, someone started worrying about what to do with the "foreigners", as they were all grouped together at the end of the number sequence.

Considering the treatment this lot received, it is no wonder that later volunteers wishing to do their bit took the elementary precaution of giving the recruiters less offensive names and birthplaces.

[Guest Simon Bull]

My wife has German ancestry and I showed her this thread. She commented:

I am researching my family history which includes German migrants to the UK from 1872 onwards, including the WW1 period. This may help out Fred W.

1. Two of the families I have researched, with second generation children, i.e. born in UK, had sons serving in the British Army. Both fathers had been Naturalised.

2. I also know that the Nottingham Aliens Register for my great grandfather, George Frederick Wagner, recorded that he had one son serving. This, and the fact that he had become a Naturalised British citizen, may have been enough to have prevented him being interned, unlike others in the family.

3. From my reading and research it seems likely that many of the German Immigrants in Britain were placed in the Middlesex Regiment, not simply because they may have come from the London area. I have researched the names WAGNER and DENNER on the Medal Roll at the PRO. There are disproportionate numbers of those with these names in the Middlesex Regiment.

4. Other German migrants in my survey were in the Labour Corps, often I guess because they may have agricultural backgrounds, like working with horses, pork farmers, pork butchers etc.

5. There is a good book by Panayaki Paniyakos about German Immigrants - very thorough. If you are interested I can dig out the title. It covers the experiences of migrants over a long period but particularly deals with the war years.

6. Finally, can I suggest that Fred W may wish to contact the Anglo-German Family History Society? They hold a substantial index to German migrants found in all sorts of official records, searchable by name.

Hope this is helpful. Sorry for the delayed reply, but we have been away and have only just seen the thread.

Freddy Bull (nee Wagner)

Can I add to what my wife has said that her own family were victims of anti-German prejudice in the War, having their shop attacked by a mob after the sinking of the Lusitania.

[Clive Maier]

... 5.  There is a good book by Panayaki Paniyakos about German Immigrants - very thorough.  If you are interested I can dig out the title.  It covers the experiences of migrants over a long period but particularly deals with the war years. ...

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Panikos Panayi has written a great deal about immigration and ethnic minorities. One book that deals specifically with the Great War is:

Panayi, Panikos. 1991. The enemy in our midst: Germans in Britain during the First World War. New York; Oxford: Berg

This is an outstanding book; I can't recommend it highly enough. Other relevant works include:

Panayi, Panikos. 1993. Minorities in wartime: national and racial groupings in Europe, North America and Australia during the two World Wars. Oxford: Berg.

Panayi, Panikos. 1993. Racial violence in Britain, 1840-1950. Leicester: Leicester University Press.

Panayi, Panikos. 1994. Immigration, ethnicity, and racism in Britain, 1815-1945. Manchester: Manchester University Press.

Panayi, Panikos. 1995. German immigrants in Britain during the nineteenth century, 1815-1914. Oxford: Berg.

Panayi, Panikos. 1996. Germans in Britain since 1500. London: Hambledon Press.