Guest Simon Walker Posted 16 July , 2003 Share Posted 16 July , 2003 I've just finished working through my grandfather's WWI diaries, and there are a few entries that I have been unable fully to explain. I've listed them below, and I hope someone will be able to help with some of them! There may seem a lot, but the diaries run to two volumes... All dates are 1915. May 12th. Am given the job of starting Ledgers by Lieut. Kirby, who arrived here on the 10th. Richardson and I have practically kept the record work & the issues going, between us. [presumably book-keeping of equipment & supplies?] ************************************************************** May 16th and 17th. Nothing worth noting. Usual routine. Ellis took "Receipts" on 17th. [presumably book-keeping of equipment & supplies?] ************************************************************** Tue. June 1st S. Sergt. Barford (Arm. list) killed by a shell. [Army List, i.e. a regular soldier?] ************************************************************** Saturday, June 5th We received a lot of coalboxes from the Asiatic side (from the direction of Chanak) in the morning. [slang for a type of shell?] ************************************************************** Sunday, June 13th. One of our 'planes fell into the sea through engine trouble in the afternoon; the pilot & observer were taken off by a T.B.D & the plane was towed to the beach. [any information on this event welcome]. ************************************************************** Thursday June 17th. The Naval Division have repeated their S. A. trick – landed two 4.7's. for the defence of the camp. A monitor bombarded the Asiatic forts at night. [what does S A mean?] ************************************************************** Sunday, June 25th. Our battleships carried out a stiff bombardment – of what we couldn’t quite make out - starting at 3p.m. Later, a huge pillar of black smoke arose from behind Achi Baba gradual spread across the sky till it reached right out to sea in a black pall fully ten miles long. This we concluded was the effect of the ships' fire; they must have set fire to Maidos. [any information on this event welcome]. ************************************************************** Tuesday July 18th. A French aeroplane fell into the sea in the afternoon through engine trouble and was subsequently towed in & beached, or rather grounded, by a tugboat. The pilot & observer were both rescued. The plane was afterwards anchored in the water – I should have thought that it was worth salving, but the authorities do not seem to trouble about it. Shall swim out and investigate it tomorrow morning – it's about 100 yards out. Wednesday July 14th. …Swam out to the aeroplane in morning. It seems to be all right as far as the engine and the fuselage are concerned, the planes are, of course damaged. Thursday Septr 9th. …The aeroplane which fell into the water on July 14th. has been taken out and is in the compound being rigged up as a dummy to draw the enemy's gunfire. [ any information on the aircraft or the incident gratefully received…] ************************************************************** Wednesday July 14th. …A limbered wagon is not all honey when bullets & shells are buzzing around and the horses are going at a stretch gallop with a Dublin Fusiliers guiding 'em in the pitch dark over rough & unknown country. Moreover, the Turks persisted in firing joy pistols in our direction and we didn't like being "shown up" like that… [anyone familiar with this expression? Flare pistols?] ************************************************************** Friday July 16th. …Accordingly I set out on one of the Minesweepers – No. 341 - and after a two hours trip arrived at the island [of Lemnos] at 7 P.M.., delivered the bombs, and had a look round the place. It is quite different from the peninsula, much more fertile. Stayed there for the night & returned next morning by minesweeper, arriving at 7 a.m. [any information on this minesweeper welcome… ] ************************************************************** Monday July 19th. The Engineers have commenced building a breakwater, and have sunk a large Italian steamship loaded with cement to form part of the breakwater. [anyone know the name of the vessel?] ************************************************************** Fri. & Sat July 23 – 24. Usual shelling. Leg much better. Mark Ellis takes provision branch. [presumably takes over administration of provisions?] ************************************************************** Sunday Aug 22nd Went to early service in morning. Some nasty shells over in The evening from Asia. They appear to be trying to find the French 24cm guns. [Naval guns, landed for artillery support?] ************************************************************** Sunday Aug 29th. Started on the return voyage at 11 a.m. and landed at Laner Ldg. at 4.P.M. [any info on Larner Landing, believed to be on or near W Beach (Lancashire Landing)]. ************************************************************** Saturday Septr 11th. Promoted a/.2./Cpl. to date from July 17th. [acting lance corporal?] ************************************************************** Sunday, Septr 12th. Two 6 inch L. S. guns were landed last night and are on the beach ready to be taken up to the positions that have been prepared for them on the right hand side of the gully. [what does L S stand for?] ************************************************************** Oct. 19th Note: The entries from 13th. to 20 were probably made somewhere about the 22nd. I have a confused idea that I noted down some few facts on an F S message pad in pencil and I think I must have embodied those notes in the diary when I regained strength. was probably unable to get at the AB136. [F S – Field Service?] ************************************************************** Oct. 27th. England - Southampton – at last: We're all very much cheered up, although we don't feel so cheerful as we might – one poor chap died just as we got inside the docks. Commenced disembarking at about 3 P.M. I was put on a train at about 8.30 P.M. and eventually arrived in Ducie Avenue HP. [or FP, it is difficult to read], Manch'r at 1:30. AM. [anyone familiar with the term HP or FP in relation to military hospitals?] ************************************************************** Thanks, Simon Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenwoodman Posted 16 July , 2003 Share Posted 16 July , 2003 S. A. probably refers to South Africa, when Naval Brigades landed 4.7" guns from HMS Powerful and HMS Terrible in support of the Army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 16 July , 2003 Share Posted 16 July , 2003 "Coalboxes" was a term used by the Tommies in France for German 5.9 inch shells, which gave off a lot of black smoke on exploding. They were also called Jack Johnsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 16 July , 2003 Share Posted 16 July , 2003 A few annotations which may help. May 12th. Am given the job of starting Ledgers by Lieut. Kirby, who arrived here on the 10th. Richardson and I have practically kept the record work & the issues going, between us. [presumably book-keeping of equipment & supplies?] ************************************************************** May 16th and 17th. Nothing worth noting. Usual routine. Ellis took "Receipts" on 17th. [presumably book-keeping of equipment & supplies?] ************************************************************** Tue. June 1st S. Sergt. Barford (Arm. list) killed by a shell. [Army List, i.e. a regular soldier?] ************************************************************** Saturday, June 5th We received a lot of coalboxes from the Asiatic side (from the direction of Chanak) in the morning. [slang for a type of shell?] Coalboxes were shells which burst with a cloud of black smoke (like coaldust). They were also called Jack Johnsons (after a black boxer of the period). The nicknames more commonly aply to German shells on the Western Front. The gun(s) responsible were nicknamed "Asiatic Annie". ************************************************************** Sunday, June 13th. One of our 'planes fell into the sea through engine trouble in the afternoon; the pilot & observer were taken off by a T.B.D & the plane was towed to the beach. [any information on this event welcome]. Torpedoe Boat Destroyer The planes used at Gallipoli were ancient and unreliable. ************************************************************** Thursday June 17th. The Naval Division have repeated their S. A. trick – landed two 4.7's. for the defence of the camp. A monitor bombarded the Asiatic forts at night. [what does S A mean?] ************************************************************** Sunday, June 25th. Our battleships carried out a stiff bombardment – of what we couldn’t quite make out - starting at 3p.m. Later, a huge pillar of black smoke arose from behind Achi Baba gradual spread across the sky till it reached right out to sea in a black pall fully ten miles long. This we concluded was the effect of the ships' fire; they must have set fire to Maidos. [any information on this event welcome]. Firing across the peninsula to harass the communities were turkish supplies and reinforcements were being landed was common. Maidos was in flames on several occassions. ************************************************************** Tuesday July 18th. A French aeroplane fell into the sea in the afternoon through engine trouble and was subsequently towed in & beached, or rather grounded, by a tugboat. The pilot & observer were both rescued. The plane was afterwards anchored in the water – I should have thought that it was worth salving, but the authorities do not seem to trouble about it. Shall swim out and investigate it tomorrow morning – it's about 100 yards out. Wednesday July 14th. …Swam out to the aeroplane in morning. It seems to be all right as far as the engine and the fuselage are concerned, the planes are, of course damaged. Thursday Septr 9th. …The aeroplane which fell into the water on July 14th. has been taken out and is in the compound being rigged up as a dummy to draw the enemy's gunfire. [ any information on the aircraft or the incident gratefully received…] In the autumn the temporary air strip above Lancashire Landing which had only seen emergency use for much of its life due ti its vulnerability to enemy fire (several planes were badly damaged whilst there). The dummy aircraft erected there in the autumn drew around 600-700 shells during its life. ************************************************************** Wednesday July 14th. …A limbered wagon is not all honey when bullets & shells are buzzing around and the horses are going at a stretch gallop with a Dublin Fusiliers guiding 'em in the pitch dark over rough & unknown country. Moreover, the Turks persisted in firing joy pistols in our direction and we didn't like being "shown up" like that… [anyone familiar with this expression? Flare pistols?] ************************************************************** Friday July 16th. …Accordingly I set out on one of the Minesweepers – No. 341 - and after a two hours trip arrived at the island [of Lemnod] at 7 P.M.., delivered the bombs, and had a look round the place. It is quite different from the peninsula, much more fertile. Stayed there for the night & returned next morning by minesweeper, arriving at 7 a.m. [any information on this minesweeper welcome… ] I think this is Lemnos not Lemnod. ************************************************************** Monday July 19th. The Engineers have commenced building a breakwater, and have sunk a large Italian steamship loaded with cement to form part of the breakwater. [anyone know the name of the vessel?] ************************************************************** Fri. & Sat July 23 – 24. Usual shelling. Leg much better. Mark Ellis takes provision branch. [presumably takes over administration of provisions?] ************************************************************** Sunday Aug 22nd Went to early service in morning. Some nasty shells over in The evening from Asia. They appear to be trying to find the French 24cm guns. [Naval guns, landed for artillery support?] ************************************************************** Sunday Aug 29th. Started on the return voyage at 11 a.m. and landed at Laner Ldg. at 4.P.M. [any info on Larner Landing, believed to be on or near W Beach (Lancashire Landing)]. ************************************************************** Saturday Septr 11th. Promoted a/.2./Cpl. to date from July 17th. [acting lance corporal?] ************************************************************** Sunday, Septr 12th. Two 6 inch L. S. guns were landed last night and are on the beach ready to be taken up to the positions that have been prepared for them on the right hand side of the gully. [what does L S stand for?] This sounds a little like Gully Ravine ************************************************************** Oct. 19th Note: The entries from 13th. to 20 were probably made somewhere about the 22nd. I have a confused idea that I noted down some few facts on an F S message pad in pencil and I think I must have embodied those notes in the diary when I regained strength. was probably unable to get at the AB136. [F S – Field Service?] ************************************************************** Oct. 27th. England - Southampton – at last: We're all very much cheered up, although we don't feel so cheerful as we might – one poor chap died just as we got inside the docks. Commenced disembarking at about 3 P.M. I was put on a train at about 8.30 P.M. and eventually arrived in Ducie Avenue HP. [or FP, it is difficult to read], Manch'r at 1:30. AM. [anyone familiar with the term HP or FP in relation to military hospitals?] ************************************************************** You haven't said which Unit he was with - which would help with locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 16 July , 2003 Share Posted 16 July , 2003 1st June - Staff Sgt Barford Armourer - see CWGC website for entry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Simon Walker Posted 16 July , 2003 Share Posted 16 July , 2003 Apologies for omitting the diarist's details. He was 6556 L/Cpl. R Walker Army Ordnance Corps attached Hdqrs 88 Bde 29th Division He landed at W Beach on the morning of 25 April 1915, and was evacuated ill on 14 October. Simon Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Simon Walker Posted 16 July , 2003 Share Posted 16 July , 2003 Apologies for omitting the diarist's details. He was 6556 L/Cpl. R Walker Army Ordnance Corps attached Hdqrs 88 Bde 29th Division He landed at W Beach on the morning of 25 April 1915, and was evacuated ill on 14 October. Simon Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 16 July , 2003 Share Posted 16 July , 2003 A/2/Cpl. is actually "Acting Second Corporal", a rank that I was unfamiliar with until recently, when a thread on this site answered my question. It is found in certain Corps such as the RE and AOC and does equate to (acting)L/Cpl. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevebec Posted 17 July , 2003 Share Posted 17 July , 2003 The term S.A. in the AIF was for "similated attack". also know as a dummy attack. It was used to draw attention to the troops so as to let the real attack be unnoticed. Also to fool the enemy into thinking an attack was on a broader frontage then it was. S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 18 July , 2003 Share Posted 18 July , 2003 These attacks also sometimes called Chinese attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 18 July , 2003 Share Posted 18 July , 2003 T.B.D equals torpedo boat destroyer, I think. "S.A trick" must refer to land use of naval guns removed from ships which was done successfully in South Afica to augment conventional artillery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Simon Walker Posted 24 July , 2003 Share Posted 24 July , 2003 Thanks for your help, everyone. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 8 August , 2003 Share Posted 8 August , 2003 (edited) Simon, I am still catching-up on things I missed last month and the following comes in the category of 'better late than never' Regarding the air strip and planes mentioned, have a look at 'Royal Naval Air Service 1912-1918' by Brad King, pub 1997 by Hikoki Publications (ISBN 0 9519899 5 2) Page 39 refers to the setting up of an airstrip at Cape Helles for use from early May, however the field was within easy range of the Turks and in full view of Achi Baba. After 5 aircraft were lost there by the end of June it was decided to use it for emergency landings only. CPO (Mechanic) George Lacey and Arthur Beeton were based there "for two months or more" which might just put them in the right place for the Sept 9 dairy entry (?) In any event a very similar exercise is described also on p.39 "Lacey and Beeton .... put together a Voisin from scrap bits and pieces and moved it around the airfield by night. By day the Turks would loose off in a rage and waste an enormous amount of ammunition. On the first day alone, 127 shells crumped around the invincible machine." For pictures see page 32 (illust 42) Ariel view of Lancashire landing including 'X' marking the site of the Cape Helles landing site [iWM HU 67859] page 34 (illust 47) June 1915, Turkish shell burst at Cape Helles landing site with biplane B.E. 2c No.5 in foreground [iWM Q 44344] page 43 (illust 60) Cape Helles landing site June 1915 [iWM Q 44336] Regarding the shelling of Maidos, as Martin Wills pointed out above, this took place on many occasions. In 'Five Years in Turkey' Gen. Liman von Sanders describes an earlier bombardment see page 72 - "The prosperous port of Maidos went up in flames on April 29 under the fire of British ships." and he concludes "In Maidos, which was not fortified or occupied by staffs or troops, not a single house or wall remained intact." see also Moorehead's 'Gallipoli' [p 166-168 Wordsworth ed] Early in May, Enver sent for the American diplomat Morgenthau to get a message to the allies protesting at the bombardment of towns like Maidos and saying that he intended to intern allied nationals in concentration camps there and "henceforth they would be killing there own people at Gallipoli as well as the Turks." Eventually Enver and Bedri, his Chief of Police, settled for 50 male hostages including Dr. Wigram an Anglican clergyman. After a little while and British threats to hold Enver personally responsible, the hostages were allowed back to Constantinople. Regards Michael D.R. Edited 12 August , 2003 by michaeldr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 10 August , 2003 Share Posted 10 August , 2003 (edited) Simon; re entry for Fri 16 Jul 1915 - Minesweeper No.341 I wonder if this was one of the Trawlers employed by the RN at Gallipoli They were tried out as minesweepers in the Dardanelles but could not make sufficient headway against the current, becoming sitting ducks for the Turkish guns and thereby unnerving their crews. On 25 April they towed the SWBs to 'S' Beach and again their slow speed caused problems. However they were later gainfully employed as light transports between the islands and between the islands and the beach-head. Joe Murray wrote of collecting stores from one and they occur several times in this role in Compton Mackenzie's book. As well as trawler/minesweepers they were also sometimes referred to as Ketches. CM has a story about Captain Heneage, the commodore in command of small vessels being known as Captain K (as in Captain D - commander of the destroyer flotilla). Heneage called his ships Ketches so that if anyone asked him for a Trawler "I can always reply with perfect truth that I have'nt got a single one to spare." This attitude does not seem to have done him any harm career wise as a footnote refers to him later as Admiral A. Walker-Heneage-Vivian CB. MVO. RN Have a look at http://www.gwpda.org/naval/rntrawlr.htm You will find there a reference to what may be the sister ship of your minesweeper trawler No.342 'Drumoak' whose disappearance is also referred to in PRO doc ADM137/1002 *****Sorry, this should read ADM137/1003 Perhaps the PRO can also turn up something on No.341 Regards Michael D.R. Edited 10 August , 2003 by michaeldr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 12 August , 2003 Share Posted 12 August , 2003 Simon, re the diary entry for Sunday Aug 22nd "French 24cm guns" I have seen references to French 75mm, 10cm and 14cm but I can find nothing so far on a French 24cm. I assume that an AOC man would know about these things (unlike myself who know nothing about a lot of things and guns in particular) however 24cm or nearly nine and a half inches sounds very big indeed and would have warranted a mention somewhere, or so I would have thought. Just moving it about would have proved tricky on Gallipoli without special equipment etc. Is it possible that this should read 14cm? See page 147 of 'Defeat at Gallipoli' by Steel & Hart "...between 30 April and 4 May Gen. d'Amade ordered four 14cm and two 10cm naval guns and their crews to be landed and positioned near Sedd el Bahr to carry out counter-battery work against the guns in Asia..." This also seems to fit with your diary's "nasty shells over in the evening from Asia" ??? On the other hand, assuming that the diary is correct then perhaps I could suggest a special appeal to our continental pals might clarify the matter. Likewise I regret I have no ideas re 'L. S.' as in "Sunday Septr 12th - Two 6 inch L.S. guns...." Very good luck with your researches and best regards Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn_Hammond Posted 12 August , 2003 Share Posted 12 August , 2003 Regarding the air strip and planes mentioned, have a look at 'Royal Naval Air Service 1912-1918' by Brad Pit, pub 1997 by Hikoki Publications (ISBN 0 9519899 5 2) Michael I am sure you will now realise your mistake but I hope my colleague Mr King is flattered by the error! Bryn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 12 August , 2003 Share Posted 12 August , 2003 Bryn, Many thanks for the correction and my apologies to Mr B. King Sorry for the other Brad too; it seems that I can't spell 'Pitt' either! Original post timed at 0919 so I can't even blame the vino; just plain dumb I suppose Regards Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 12 August , 2003 Share Posted 12 August , 2003 No Michael, you are just another victim of movie mogul saturation disease - on the other hand you never see Messrs King and Pitt in the same room, do you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted 14 August , 2003 Share Posted 14 August , 2003 Simon, Re entry for Fri 16 Jul 1915 - Minesweeper No.341 Admiralty Number 341 = Minesweeper [A hired Trawler H95 [Hull] PRINCE PALATINE. Built 1914.] Requisitioned 8/1914-1919 Arthur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 15 August , 2003 Share Posted 15 August , 2003 Well done Arthur, what's the secret ingredient? Can you share with us how you got to this info Hoping to learn Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted 15 August , 2003 Share Posted 15 August , 2003 Minesweeper No.341 The information supplied came from: "BRITISH WARSHIPS 1914-19 by F. J. DITTMAR & J. J. COLLEDGE and SHIPS OF THE ROYAL NAVY by J. J. COLLEDGE. Arthur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 15 August , 2003 Share Posted 15 August , 2003 Noted and Many thanks Arthur Best regards Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 17 August , 2003 Share Posted 17 August , 2003 Simon, Further to my above post of 12th Aug concerning French 24cm guns Have a look at the topic 'Uniforms, arms, insignia & equipment' and the thread "Is this for real?" Our pal Nicolas G refers there to a French 240mm mortar and I wonder if this is what your diary was referring to (and not naval guns) I have posted a request on that thread for info re their pos use at Gallipoli and await a reply I hope that this not a Red Herring Regards Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Simon Walker Posted 19 August , 2003 Share Posted 19 August , 2003 Hi Michael, Thanks for your information. I have checked the diary, and it clearly says "24cm" guns. I agree, that's pretty big. If I find any more I'll let you know! Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 21 August , 2003 Share Posted 21 August , 2003 Simon, At last something firm on French 24cm guns; this is what has turned up Prof Tim Travers 'Gallipoli 1915' - page 273 - Appendix III Allied Order of Battle: August 1915 Corps Expeditionnaire D'Orient Corps Artillery - this item includes 2 siege guns, 240mm Alas I have been unable to turn up any further reference to these guns by Travers Thus I still cannot say when they arrived (they do not appear in the Order of Battle: 25 April) or where they were placed It is still possible that our French Pal, Nicolas G might find something; keep your fingers crossed Regards Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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