Help needed!

[Guest diva]

Can anyone help me to interpret this information from my grandfather's obituary:"He served with the British Expeditionary Force from 1914-1918 as a member of the 52nd Highland Division". What exactly does all that mean? Does it tell you where he served, and what he did in the army?

I also have the information (from my mother and grandmother) that he was in the Signal Corps in this Highland division, and that after that he was in the Navy Reserve as a Junior Engineer on an Atlantic transport. Does this jibe with the information from his obituary? What is the Signal Corps, what was the 52nd Highland Division,and what is an Atlantic transport?

I guess it's pretty obvious that I'm a novice at this type of information, but that's why I'm turning to the experts on this Forum for help!

My grandfather's name was Andrew William Murray, born in Glasgow in 1897, but raised in Aberdeen, and immigrated to the US in 1920.

Many thanks in advance for any help!

Bonnie

[BeppoSapone]

Bonnie

A quick point that will help you in "Google" searches. The 52nd Division was not the Highland Division, that was the 51st Division.

The 52nd Division was from the Lowlands of Scotland.

51st (Highland) Division

52nd (Lowland) Division.

Hope this helps

[Doug Lewis]

diva

Go here on the mother site for more info on the 52nd Division

http://www.1914-1918.net/52div.htm

Regards Doug.

[Steven Broomfield]

The fact he was "raised in Aberdeen" and that he allegedly served with the BEF might indicate he was in the 51st, rather then the 52nd, Division. Although the 52nd ended up in France, most of their service was in the Middle East, so my guess is that your chap was more liley in the Highland Division Signal Company.

[Stebie9173]

A member of the Divisonal Signal Company would have been a Royal Engineer.

The 51st and 52nd Divisions were Territorial Force Divisions (similar to the US National Guard, if you're in the States). These units had there own numbering systems which were reorganised in early 1917 when all the Territorial soldiers were given a new number.

The numbers given to the Highland Division Signals (51st) were 406000 to 408000 and those to the Lowland (52nd) Division Signals were 418000 to 420000.

The Medal Index Cards have this man :

Driver Andrew W Murray, Numbers 441 & 406074.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...&resultcount=11

who fits the 51st Divisions set of numbers.

There are 10 other Andrew Murrays in the Royal Engineers, none with a middle initial, and all their service numbers seem to be from Regular Army units.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...=1&mediaarray=*

On a Percentage scale I would say this is 80% likely to be your man...

You can follow 51st Divisions War here :

http://www.1914-1918.net/51div.htm

A Divisional Signaller was generally involved in keeping communications open between the Divisional Headquarters and the 3 Brigade HQs of the Division. Usually this was done by laying and maintaining telephone cables which were constantly being broken due to shelling. Quite a few Divisional Signallers won gallantry medals for repairing these line under fire.

Hope this helps,

Steve.

[Guest diva]

You guys are great! Your information fits in with the information I already have and also gives me many new avenues to pursue. Family lore states that my grandfather was in France and was gassed, which affected his lungs (emphysema) and destroyed his senses of smell and taste. I also now recall being told that he was a Royal Engineer, so it all fits.

This is a question from someone that knows nothing about the organization of the British military: my grandfather's brother, Thomas J. Murray, was in (I believe) the Gordon Highlanders (based on my interpretation of a picture I have of him in his uniform). Is the Gordon Highlanders another division, like the 51st Highland Division, or are they parts of the same thing, or what? I know I'm asking for a lesson from "British Military Organization 101", but I really know nothing about how they were set up.

Anyway, many thanks for your swift and sure expertise....I knew you'd come through!

Bonnie

[dycer]

Bonnie,

Have you had a look under "Army" on the Introduction Site to the left of Forum.

You will find that Chris Baker(Creator of this Long,Long Trail Web-Site) has given details of the various Regiments and Divisions that made up the British Army between 1914-1918.

It is a good starting place.

If you can post a photograph of your Grandfather's Brother we should be able to confirm if he was a Gordon. Do you have his medals or service number if so we may be able to pin down his Battalion?

The Gordon Highlanders in the main come from the North East of Scotland.Aberdeen has a Gordon Highlanders' Museum so you might want to plan a visit sometime.

George(an exiled Aberdonian)