armourersergeant Posted 14 July , 2003 Author Share Posted 14 July , 2003 Ian on the face of it i do not have a problem with doing something like that but the only proviso i would make is that i have not ever heard of this chap i would wish to collaborate the story and its content, we often criticise other sources for not being accurate we would not want to go off at half cock so to speak. Perhaps somebody has knowledge of Nowtny and his 'career'. The last thing i wish is to end up giving a right wing party ammunition to use and blowing this thing up into a political matter as the letter seems to imply. That said the important matter is that this chap is treated with the respect he very likely deserves. Age shall not weary them nor the years condem, but a petty individual will have a bloody good try. Arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 14 July , 2003 Share Posted 14 July , 2003 Perhaps somebody has knowledge of Nowtny and his 'career'. The last thing i wish is to end up giving a right wing party ammunition to use and blowing this thing up into a political matter as the letter seems to imply. That said the important matter is that this chap is treated with the respect he very likely deserves. Arm. A lot has been written about "Nowi". He indeed, was a genuine war hero and was treated a little like the David Beckham of his day! He never did join the NSDAP (many Luftwaffe personell didn't). In a way he was a WW2 version of Immelmann, Richtofen, Boelke, etc. Cigarrette cards, kids posters, newspapwer and magazine interviews and photoshoots etc. He was many a German girl's "pin-up". The Nazis, however, also used him as part of their propaganda machine (well, they would, wouldn't they?). He was also a pioneer of the Me 262 Jet fighter - he was actually the CO of the first ever purely jet operational unit - (it was in one of these that he died, in action against the USAAF - "White 8" - which at the time was unservicable.He took off in a fit of anger after his unit had been criticised by Adolf Galland, to attack an escorted group of USAAF B42's. His last words were recorded as " I'm burning.My God, MyGod ,I'm burning!"). All in all, as well as being an extremely successful "jaeger", he was an idol to thousands. As you may have noticed,this subject brushes on another of my interests! Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 14 July , 2003 Share Posted 14 July , 2003 Walter Nowotny....RIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 14 July , 2003 Author Share Posted 14 July , 2003 thought you knew something dave as you used a nickname i noticed earlier. thanks for the info german air force is an area of ww2 i know little about so i had never come across this name the best i could do was old fatso and Galland. Arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 14 July , 2003 Share Posted 14 July , 2003 Arm. I was updating my post with further info. as you must have been writing yours. You'll notice a mention of Galland (Luftwaffe General by this time) in the Nowotny story. Incidentally, rather gruesomely, the only identifiable remains after Nowotny's crash (which was witnessed by Galland) were his left hand and the diamonds of his decoration. No wonder the rest of the "mess" was cremated! Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 14 July , 2003 Share Posted 14 July , 2003 Dave, Was he the first leader of JV44 and succeeded by Adolf Galland? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 14 July , 2003 Share Posted 14 July , 2003 Hi Ian. No. He basically spent his entire career in Russia with JG 54, joining them in 1941 as a Lt. (9/JG 54 and 3/JG 54 during 1942). He became Staffelkapitan with I/JG 54 in 1942, Gruppenkommandeur with the same in 1943. In 1944, after promotion to Hauptmann, he transferred to JG 101 in the west and was eventually given his own command, as a Major, also in 1944 with Kommando Nowotny (me 262 E's). This is the unit in which he died. The "RedWulf" unit that you refer to (JV 44) was a larger formation.In a way "Kommando Nowotny" was the prototype. (Galland actually mentioned Kdo Nowotny in his reasons for the formation of JV 44). Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 15 July , 2003 Share Posted 15 July , 2003 Dave, Thanks for that. Did Nowotny serve with Erich Hartman on the Eastern Front at all? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 15 July , 2003 Share Posted 15 July , 2003 Ian. "Nowi" didn't actually serve with the "ace of aces" (can you imagine the effect this would have had on Russian Air Force morale if he did !!! ?). Hartmann was part of JG 52, flying Bf 109G-6's from 1942 (when he became "operational")onwards. I'm not too sure, but I think that this may be the only unit that he stayed with. They would have partaken in the same operations and probably knew each other, but they didn't actually "serve" with each other. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 5 September , 2003 Share Posted 5 September , 2003 The following is extracted from an article which appeared in my newspaper today. It is credited to the Reuters newsagency, but without a reporter's name. "Vienna - The City of Vienna said yesterday it would re-examine all 'graves of honor' awarded to citizens between 1939 and 1945 when Austria was part of Adolf Hitler's Third Reich................. In May, the Vienna city council took the controversial step of voting to strip the grave-of-honor designation from the grave of Walter Nowotny, a Luftwaffe major who shot down 258 enemy planes during World War II. The so-called graves of honor, of which there are several thousand in Vienna, were awarded to prominent citizens for services to their country............................... ....city councillor for culture Andreas Mailath-Pokorny said in a statement "The historically factual reappraisal by independent experts is designed to thwart one-sided polemics and to bring about an upright and truthful treatment of the past............................................................................ .... David Ellensohn, a Greens city councillor who initiated the drive to have Nowotny's grave redesignated, welcomed the new investigation............................................................. 'These graves should not be honor graves. No body's asking for the bodies to be dug up and removed; all we want is a plaque stating that this was formerly an honor grave and why it no longer is.' Ellensohn added." It now appears that the remains are not to be disturbed or removed to a paupers grave; R.I.P. I feel sure that the move "to thwart one-sided polemics and to bring about an upright and truthful treatment of the past" is also to be welcomed. It is something of a strange coincidence that on the day when the above appeared in my morning newspaper, the evening's TV news also had a reminder of another WWII pilot, with the dignified burial of Flt.-Sgt John Carmichael RAF. May he also rest in peace. Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 5 September , 2003 Share Posted 5 September , 2003 Well some may disagree but as I understand this I feel it's correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 5 September , 2003 Author Share Posted 5 September , 2003 He should lay where he is, bravo. Arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carolyn Posted 5 September , 2003 Share Posted 5 September , 2003 I say leave him where he is. There is, as so many of you have said, too much of the PC attitude gone wrong here. WWII cannot be removed - it is part of history and nobody should be trying to turn back the clock with such futile gestures. A war hero is a war hero no matter which side he served on and he should be left in peace. Those responsible for this exhumation should remember the lessons LEARNT from war rather than to try sweeping any association with it under the carpet. "LEST WE FORGET...." Carolyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 5 September , 2003 Share Posted 5 September , 2003 I welcome the news that the grave is to remain undisturbed (though there's not much contained within anyway ). Even if it's "grave of honour" status is removed, so what? Those who know of him will still remember him as the hero and pioneer that he was. The PC brigade can't erase people's minds. (Though, knowing of something about "Nowi's" character, I could imagine him being quite amused by all this fuss! ) Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now