T G Stacke Canadian Infantry

[shaymen]

Could anyone give me some info on the following soldier

Name: STACKE

Initials: T G

Nationality: Canadian

Rank: Private

Regiment: Canadian Infantry (Western Ontario Regiment)

Unit Text: 1st Bn.

Date of Death: 09/04/1917

Service No: 6269

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Cemetery: VIMY MEMORIAL

Can we find out his previous service - could he have previously been with the 36th Bn.

Not familiar with researching Canadian soldiers - any help on this much appreciated.

Glyn

[shaymen]

Just found his attestation papers online - It confirms my thoughts that this is the same man - newspaper seem to have spelt his name wrong - Could he have been with the 36th Bn

Glyn

[Canadawwi]

I've looked at his attestation. He mentions that he had prior military service in answer to one of the questions. This could explain the "36th battalion" you are wondering about. His prior military service would likely have been with a Militia unit, and there was a 36th Regiment for Peel. Peel relates to what is now in the area of Mississauga, Ontario, an area just outside of Toronto. At that time much of the area was devoted to farming.

I couldn't see a Canadian address on the attestation to make this connection and confirm this, but 36th Peel Regiment is a possibility. Many new immigrants arrived to live in Canada in the Toronto area or nearby because the large concentration of population meant a better chance at a job.

[Canadawwi]

Pte. Thomas George Stacke, 1st Battalion CEF, was killed on April 9th, 1917 at Vimy Ridge and is remembered on the Vimy Memorial:

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm...asualty=1576077

[jhill]

There is another wrinkle to this. The regimental number 6269 is, indeed, in the sequence allocated to the 1st Bn while at Valcartier (where, as you can see, he attested in Sepember, 1914). The original 1st Battalion men came from Western Ontario, from places such as Windsor, London, Parry Sound, Stratford, Sarnia, and Galt.

The 36th Battalion (C.E.F.) had not been authorized at this point. However, the 36th would eventually be allocted regimental numbers A6001 thru A8000. Eventually the numbering system was straightened out and the 36th numbers would be 406001 thru 408000.

It is quite possible that a newspaper or a militia official, on seeing the number 6269 would assume it was a 36th man, not realizing that the sequences overlapped.

Or so it seems to me.

[Broznitsky]

possible that a newspaper or a militia official, on seeing the number 6269 would assume it was a 36th man, not realizing that the sequences overlapped.

But James, do you think "knowing" regimental numbers would have been common during the war? I think it is only us "anoraks" who study them and can spot them a mile away.

How about he was posted to the 36th to aid in training whilst in England, the 36th becoming 3rd Reserve, and then was transferred back to the 1st and died at Vimy?

The only sure way to know would be our mantra of ordering his service records from Library and Archives Canada.

[jhill]

But James, do you think "knowing" regimental numbers would have been common during the war?  I think it is only us "anoraks" who study them and can spot them a mile away.

How about he was posted to the 36th to aid in training whilst in England, the 36th becoming 3rd Reserve, and then was transferred back to the 1st and died at Vimy?

The only sure way to know would be our mantra of ordering his service records from Library and Archives Canada.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your point is valid. I made the suggestion in consequence of perusing many pages of casualty lists in a local paper. As you know, the place of enlistment was not recorded at the beginning, so the casualty lists had little more than number, name, and address of next-of-kin (which was often of little value). In order to highlight possible local casualties, the paper used the regimental number to identify men who had enlisted in local units.

Of course, This may or may not have happened in this case.

It would have been very unusual for a man to be transferred from the 1st to the 36th to the 1st, so I discount that possibility. It is, however, possible that Canadawwi's suggesting of the 36th Militia regiment angle might work. We are really just throwing out possibilities.

[Canadawwi]

I look at a lot of newspaper obituaries. The newspapers were subject to censorship rules and were not supposed to post information about the unit the man was serving in. The thinking was that a German "spy" could look at this and determine locations of units (based on letters home that were published in the papers), or the success of a particular assault against a certain unit or units based on all the obituaries.

I had the idea that the 36th was the unit the man served in before the war because in so many of the obituaries or casualty notices (in this case I mean brief articles indicating a man has been wounded), the local papers tended to refer to the unit a man left with, ie. the 180th Sportsmen of Toronto, 208th Irish, or the 124th Pals, etc. These were all units that were broken up at the front to reinforce units, so it was safe to identify the man in that way. Most of the time the unit was not mentioned at all, or something like "with the Mounted Rifles" was included.

Another thing I've noticed working with newspapers is that there are a lot of mistakes - especially with numbers. The typesetting was hand done at that time.

It is still very difficult to figure out the true explanation and the other interpretations provided here also make sense.

[Broznitsky]

In order to highlight possible local casualties, the paper used the regimental number to identify men who had enlisted in local units. 

It would have been very unusual for a man to be transferred from the 1st to the 36th to the 1st, so I discount that possibility.  It is, however, possible that Canadawwi's suggesting of the 36th Militia regiment angle might work.  We are really just throwing out possibilities.

As the paper appears to be English, and not a local Canadian, I speculate it unlikely that the editor would know anything about numbers.

I agree that 1st-36th-1st would have been unusual; 36th Regiment could work.

We need Glyn to get those service records in!!

[shaymen]

We need Glyn to get those service records in!! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Firstly many thanks to all on your interesting thoughts. Secondly what is the best way to order his service papers - Correct me if I am wrong but I believe they are NOT downloadable online. Who should I be contacting for these and any ideas of the cost.

Lastly I forgot to mention in my earlier thread the newspaper article was dated 12/02/1916 - might help narrow it down - although as has been said newspapers of that time were very prone to errors although 1st and 36th are quite different.

Thanks

Glyn

[Canadawwi]

The full file is not online - only the two page attestation can be viewed online.

The full file is probably around 40-50 pages. I think I paid around $35 last time I ordered one.

The ordering information is right here.

I found the easiest way to do it was to send or fax a letter with my credit card info. They charged the cost to my card. They don't tell you in advance what the amount will be as they don't know how many pages are involved as it varies. I found it all worked very smoothly and the photocopies of the file arrived in about 6 weeks. It was extremely helpful to my research.

Here is a link to samples of what will be in the file.

[GrandsonMichael]

Glyn,

If you would like to have some background information on what happened on April 9, 1917 have a look at the War Diary of the 1st Canadian Infantry Battalion (Western Ontario: Narrative of Operations, pages 25 to 31, incl. Narrative 1st C.I.B.

There's more information there if you have a good look.

Cheers,

Michael

[shaymen]

Glyn,

There's more information there if you have a good look.

Cheers,

Michael

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Michael - will take a look.

I stumbled across this man in my local newspaper archives and seeing a connection with my village thought it worthy of further investigation.

Canadaww1

Thanks for the info re service records - its now on my list - may be a while before I take the plunge on his service records but when I do I will post any relevant info here.

Just another distraction from my main research - although as his parents were local to the village maybe he should have been on the Mem.

There are a couple of Aussie boys remembered on it.

Thanks all

Glyn