Netley Military Cemetery

[Sue Light]

I've just been browsing the CWGC details for Netley Military Cemetery prior to visiting. There's no cemetery plan on the site, but the grave references seem to indicate that it's arranged in several large plots, prefixed either by the letters:

C.E.

R.C.

N.

Officers'

and some with no prefix. Obviously 'Officers' is self-explanatory, but do 'C.E.' and 'R.C.' relate to 'Church of England' and 'Roman Catholic' with perhaps 'N' for 'Non-Conformist'? Or is the choice of letters just coincidental? And if it does reflect the soldiers' religion, what can be gleaned about those without a prefix? Also, is this sort of religious segregation unusual in military cemeteries? [if that's what it is].

Sue

[ypres1418]

Sue,

it looks like your on to something with this one, i've never come across anything like that before tho.

perhaprs when you visit it it might throw some more light onto it.

have a good visit.

Mandy

[Canadawwi]

Hello!

I am attaching a map for Netley, and, as you suspected, it shows a layout of graves divided by religious denomination. I don't know if this is usual. If you look closely, this cemetery has also split out the graves of officers.

My great uncle is buried there, and as I have been unable to arrange a visit and was looking for photographs for my research on his life (and for flowers to be left) - a friend in England kindly agreed to visit his grave for me a couple of years ago. He picked up the attached map from the office and called in advance to make the arrangements, as the office would not be open at all times.

I can send you a larger version of this attachment if you are interested. I also have a fairly large collection of Netley hospital information and photographs, and can look through what I have for anyone who is interested in this subject.

Marika

(Image of map removed - contact me for a copy)

[Canadawwi]

This early document is a list of burials at Netley, and indicates that the graves were organized by religious groups. This page covers "Presbyterians, Wesleyans, etc." and the religion is specified using a "W" for Wesleyan and "P" for Presbyterian in the remarks columns.

(Image removed - contact me for a copy)

[chrisharley9]

One thing to remember is that Netley Military Hospital & it's cemetery opened in the Victorian era when segregation by rank, religion were the norm - I don't suppose the people running the place gave it thought just because the Great War was on - remember the old one from every work place "We've always done it that way"

All The Best

Chris

[Sue Light]

Marika

That's very illuminating and the list is fascinating - all those men definitely show up as 'N' men. I'd be very grateful for a copy of the cemetery plan - it will come in very useful. I'll contact you off-list with an email address.

Chris

It's many years since I've been there, but I think the CWGC WW1 and 2 plots are separate from the older part of the cemetery - my memory is failing of course, but perhaps someone else knows whether the pre-WW1 burials are also segregated.

And of course if anyone needs any Netley photos [digital] let me know by Friday.

Sue

[Canadawwi]

Sue,

I just checked through my files and I have a booklet from the Park Office that details the story of Netley Military Cemetery. I'll email the entire booklet to you. There is also contact info and a phone number on the last page if you want to call in advance to ask any questions.

This page from the booklet shows the division of graves throughout the hospital's history. The dark areas represent the WWI era graves.

Marika

(Map removed - contact me for a copy)

[Terry Denham]

It is not unusual for cemeteries today to have separate plots for different Christian sects or other non-Christian religions. In fact, those in multi-cultural areas really have to have them.

Even the small village cemetery for which I am responsible has a non-conformist plot (meant for anyone who was not CofE). However, according to my records nobody has ever been buried in it - and the cemetery was opened in 1870! (The village had a seperate Baptist chapel with its own burial ground at that time).

There are other examples of military cemeteries where officers have their own plot.

[spike10764]

Penrith Cemetery in Cumbria has a circular part in the centre of the cemetery described by the local cemetery workers as " The Catholic Plot"

It may be a lot more common than we think.....

[Sue Light]

Terry/Spike

I agree that many cemeteries have NC or Catholic plots, but how often does this happen in military cemeteries, and what examples are there of other places that have CWGC headstones within a single military cemetery clearly segregated by religion? I've never noticed that it happens abroad, or perhaps I haven't been looking.

Sue

[Terry Denham]

Sue

Brookwood Military Cemetery has a separate Muslim plot and some overseas CWGC cemeteries separate Hindu and Muslim burials (but not always).

I have never come across separate burials for Jews or RCs though.

[Sue Light]

Brookwood Military Cemetery has a separate Muslim plot and some overseas CWGC cemeteries separate Hindu and Muslim burials (but not always).

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Terry

Yes, of course, I was concentrating too much on Christian burials - it's not long since I was at Rue-du-Bacquerot No. 1 which is very clearly segregated. And as Chris suggested, in the cemetery at Netley the religions were divided from the early days, although from Marika's plan I can't work out what the situation was with RC burials after 1902, other than for WW1 burials. Should be an interesting visit.

Sue

[ianw]

As a Southampton boy, I am very familiar with Netley and would seriously recommend a visit to all members of the Forum. It must be one of the most interesting military cemeteries in the UK. I can confirm the segregation by religion. I think it was so important that it did it's own thing and , of course, it's many burials were well established well before the IWGC was even thought of.

It served the enormous Royal Military Hospital and is reached by way of an amazing causeway. It has burials from the mid 19th C through to the 70's. It had it's own slipway on Southampton Water for receipt of hospital ships. I think it had a half-mile central corridor prior to its demilition in the 70's. Now only the central chapel remains and the cemetery.

An interesting great War burial is the no 2 at the hospital , a Colonel Mc Culloch , I think who died in 1915 , a few months after his subaltern son in Ypres. I wonder if he died of a broken heart ?

[harribobs]

My grandfather was posted missing in france and was discovered (and recovered) in Netley

i have fond memories of it

[spike10764]

Can you tell us more of the story Harribobs? Sounds interesting....

[Bombadier]

Information about the site and its history here.

http://www.hants.gov.uk/countryside/rvcp/history.html

Nigel

[Guest Simon Bull]

This early document is a list of burials at Netley, and indicates that the graves were organized by religious groups.  This page covers "Presbyterians, Wesleyans, etc." and the religion is specified using a "W" for Wesleyan and "P" for Presbyterian in the remarks columns.

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Marika

I would be extremely interested in knowing where you saw this document. I am researching a man buried at Netley in November 1914 and I suspect that he would be recorded somewhere in this list.

[Canadawwi]

Simon - I've just sent you an email explaining who tracked down the document.

This is the contact information page for individuals who want to track down these burial lists. It is part of a four page booklet available to the public at the Park office. It dates from 2002 and may have been updated since then:

[Sue Light]

As the Gallery won't allow me in at present, here are a couple of photos taken at the cemetery yesterday. First one is a general view of the C of E /Non-Conformist area

[Sue Light]

And this is the Roman Catholic WW1 area - all the views are stunning - it was a wonderful day.

Sue

[Sue Light]

Not WW1, but there are many burials at Netley that are not marked by gravestones, mainly because the families of the men who died there did not have the means to pay for one. So throughout the cemetery it's possible to see the position of unmarked graves.

[Sue Light]

And the view from the causeway through the entrance gates

[ianw]

Thanks for the photos , Sue. They bring back many memories of visits there and I hope will encourage people to visit. Certainly a worthwhile trip,

[Guest Simon Bull]

Thanks Sue - lovely photos. Bring back happy memories of a visit in very similar weather at about this time of year a few years ago. One of my wife's first major outings after a major operation and I recall our visit very well, not least because it was very nice to know that she was getting better.

[Sue Light]

And it's a great family day out. The Royal Victoria Country Park has attractions and facilities for visitors of all ages which are not 'high tech' at all - playground, miniature railway; nature trails; the grounds running down to the sea shore; visitor centre and museum - a very traditional form of enjoyment. The park was packed with families having a good time, and there seemed to be some sort of 'Spy and Code' treasure hunt going on for the youngsters.

In contrast, the cemetery was very quiet, as might be expected, but it would certainly meet the needs of the whole family - even the one wearing the anorak! It took me back a long way as well - I trained as a midwife in Southampton, and my district training was done around Woolston and Weston on a bicycle. Happy memories of being blown along International Way in the early hours!

Sue