Pte A.L.Holland 7 Bn Canadian Inf

[PhilB]

This man was KIA 25/9/15 and is buried in Berks Cemetery Extn, Ploegsteert.

A feint attack by the Canadians drew artillery fire from the Germans on the wings of the Loos attack. The Canadians don`t appear in the Loos Battle order & I can see no mention in N.Cherry`s recent book. The question is - Is he a Loos casualty? Phil B

[CROONAERT]

This man was KIA 25/9/15 and is buried in Berks Cemetery Extn, Ploegsteert.

A feint attack by the Canadians drew artillery fire from the Germans on the wings of the Loos attack. The Canadians don`t appear in the Loos Battle order & I can see no mention in N.Cherry`s recent book. The question is - Is he a Loos casualty?  Phil B

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In a word - no.

Although he was possibly killed in one of the diversions to take pressure off the Loos front, he was killed in an area quite a distance from the Loos battlefield. In the same way, those who died in the assault at Bellewaerde on the same day can't be classified as Loos casualties. Even those killed in the diversions immediately north of the battlefield don't usually get listed as casualties of this battle.

Dave.

[Terry]

The unit war diary indicates that on the 25th the battalion, which had just moved back into the trenches the day before, made a demonstration to stir things up a bit. This resulted in artillery fire, and probably your fellow was KIA then, one more statistic marked down to "wastage" or attrition. However the unit was not involved in Loos as such.

[chris.wight]

Phil, the C.E.F. played a very small indirect part in the Loos action - the War Diary entry for September 25, 1915 suggests the type of role played by the Corps:

"Made demonstrations with smoke sacks and bombs against LA PETITE DOUVE at daylight. Enemy stirred up and his artillery very active all day." link to War Diary entry

Private Holland must have been killed due to artillery fire though the War Diary makes no mention of casualties.

[CROONAERT]

he was killed in an area quite a distance from the Loos battlefield.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...a long way from the Loos battlefield too! (Can't really be classified as on the "wings" of the Loos attack)

His battalion was holding trenches in the area of Hill 63 (between Ploegsteert and Messines) . The war diary mentions a lot of artillery activity for this day.

Dave.

[PhilB]

So the considered opinion of you gents is that a supporting, diversionary action does not constitute part of the overall action? Phil B

[truthergw]

So the considered opinion of you gents is that a supporting, diversionary action does not constitute part of the overall action? Phil B

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The boundaries of a battle or action are precisely drawn by, I believe, a committee, whose name I forget. If the action in question is not within these boundaries, temporal and geographic, it is not deemed to be part of the action. The Hohenzollern Action for instance, is a precisely delimited action which we would usually think of as part of the Battle of Loos.

[PhilB]

The boundaries of a battle or action are precisely drawn by, I believe, a committee, whose name I forget.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would this be in addition to the Battles Nomenclature Committee? Phil B

[CROONAERT]

Would this be in addition to the Battles Nomenclature Committee? Phil B

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The BNC actually include the diversionary "Action at Pietre" as part of the Battle of Loos, but, as far as I'm aware, this is the only diversion that is included (for example the "Actions of Bois Grenier" and the "Second attack on Bellewaerde", both 25th Sept., are listed separately). The events near Hill 63/La Petit Douve don't even get a mention.

Dave.

[truthergw]

Would this be in addition to the Battles Nomenclature Committee? Phil B

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry to take so long to respond, I mislaid the thread. No, I think this is indeed the committee I was thiking of.

[PhilB]

I`m not aware that the BNC laid down geographical limits to an action? Phil B