egbert Posted 9 July , 2005 Share Posted 9 July , 2005 Is "Bertincourt" same as "Bethincourt"? near Somme battlegrounds? or are they different villages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Posted 10 July , 2005 Share Posted 10 July , 2005 Hi, Bertincourt is on East of Bapaume (about 10 kms) Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 10 July , 2005 Author Share Posted 10 July , 2005 Thanx Annie, so where the heck is Bethincourt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 10 July , 2005 Share Posted 10 July , 2005 Hello Egbert, Béthincourt (postal code 55270) is to the northwest of Verdun, probably already the Argonne. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted 10 July , 2005 Share Posted 10 July , 2005 Its just in front of the Mort Homme in Verdun, played a part in the initial phases of capturing the Heights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 10 July , 2005 Author Share Posted 10 July , 2005 Thanx Jan and Chris, so the aerial header below refers to the Verdunish region Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aramsay Posted 11 July , 2005 Share Posted 11 July , 2005 Thanx Jan and Chris, so the aerial header below refers to the Verdunish region <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Egbert.....yes, I'd say the photo is of north Verdun sector. Taken by German Fliger Abteilung 278, which were part of Group Brimont, and based at Banogne, north of Reims at time of your photo. Btw......I'd be interested to see more of your photo, as not all of it is showing on the Forum page. I was in the hills above Bethincourt at New Year this year, and found many remains of trenches in the woods along the ridge, including a very substantial concrete dugout with steel-door. The door was facing North, so I am assuming it was German. Slainte, Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hederer Posted 11 July , 2005 Share Posted 11 July , 2005 Egbert, Any chance of seeing the entire photo? Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 11 July , 2005 Author Share Posted 11 July , 2005 Here it is; would somebody please be so kind in return and identify some recognized locations on this aerial ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hederer Posted 11 July , 2005 Share Posted 11 July , 2005 Here it is; would somebody please be so kind in return and identify some recognized locations on this aerial ? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Egbert, Hmm, that really looks like the northern edge of the Bois de Corbeaux looking North-west. I wouldn't swear to it, but it doesn't look like Bethincourt in the upper right-hand corner. There is no "Bethincourt Wald," on any of my Verdun maps, and the wooded area around Bethincourt does not look like that. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 11 July , 2005 Author Share Posted 11 July , 2005 Egbert, Hmm, that really looks like the northern edge of the Bois de Corbeaux looking North-west. I wouldn't swear to it, but it doesn't look like Bethincourt in the upper right-hand corner. There is no "Bethincourt Wald," on any of my Verdun maps, and the wooded area around Bethincourt does not look like that. Paul <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Paul do you revise your comment? Please check the lower left corner of the aerial where you'll find the "North" -arrow =pic views S/E! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hederer Posted 11 July , 2005 Share Posted 11 July , 2005 Paul do you revise your comment? Please check the lower left corner of the aerial where you'll find the "North" -arrow =pic views S/E! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry if I've steered you wrong . It looks like the Bois de Corbeaux, especially the distinct quadrilateral outline, looking north. Looking at French 1:10,000 maps from 1916 I can't orient the Bethincourt area in the way the photo is oriented and come up with the same picture. Perhaps someone else can help you out Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Petty Posted 12 July , 2005 Share Posted 12 July , 2005 Forgive me as I am still learning about the geography of the western front... Is this the same Bethincourt that would be within the 80th Division AEF area of advance during the first days of the Muse-Argonne, September/October 1918? The photo is captioned "H Hour, toops at the Forges River at Daybreak, Jumping off place of the Argonne Drive, Company B Bridge Bethincourt. 9-26-18." As the 80th Division took up its positions at the start of the Muse-Argonne it took up positions on the Forges River before Bethincourt. The bridge on the Forges had been built 305th Engineers of the 80th Division. Snapshot is of a traffic jam near Hill 304 near Bethincourt on the second day of the Muse-Argonne, September 27, 1918. Describing Hill 304, Private Rush S. Young of Company B, 318th Infantry wrote, "Hill 304, over which we had passed, was covered with human skeletons, the meat having long fallen from the bones. Who could they be? Yes both German and French, who had been killed in the early part of the war during the great driveand who could never be buried, because this had been 'No Man's Land' for four years. Those who were not buried were attacked and eaten by beasts of the field and the vultures of the air. In walking over this hill plenty of human skeletons, guns, bayonets, helmets, and scraps of uniforms scattered here and there could be found." An uncompleted dugout bunker near Bethincourt. This photo was made on September 28, 1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aramsay Posted 13 July , 2005 Share Posted 13 July , 2005 Here it is; would somebody please be so kind in return and identify some recognized locations on this aerial ? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not sure, but I reckon the photo is taken somewhere over the Cote de Gercourt, which is north of Bethincourt, and roughly site of "273" on the map below. The original village, I believe was destroyed, and rebuilt slightly further East. As for Vincent's note about the 80th AEF, I would indeed agree that this is the correct area. From current maps, there is only one bridge that I can see at Bethincourt over the Forges river, and it is located at the Southern end of where the original village would have been....it's on the road to Esnes, and effectively the road-route up to Cote 304 / Mort Homme. It would great to be able to match a trench/field map to this photo !? Slainte, Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hederer Posted 13 July , 2005 Share Posted 13 July , 2005 "It would great to be able to match a trench/field map to this photo !?" Boy, I sure tried. I have a few 100 maps of the Verdun area with trenches, and as I posted I couldn't find anything that matched the photo. And to think I wanted to be an imagery analyst when I came into the military! Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 13 July , 2005 Author Share Posted 13 July , 2005 Boy o boy, I rotated the map in order to be able to compare with north referenced aerial; I can not see any matching geographic points, no roads, no wood/forests realy match -nothing = I hate to say I give up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hederer Posted 13 July , 2005 Share Posted 13 July , 2005 Egbert, Do you know what the numbers 2144/2244/45 (I think that's right) signify? Is that a grid system of some type? Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 13 July , 2005 Share Posted 13 July , 2005 Sergeant Willie Sandlin won the MOH at Forges Brook, 33d Division. He was from Devils Jump Branch, Hell For Certain Creek, Leslie COunty Kentucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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