liverpool annie Posted 8 July , 2005 Share Posted 8 July , 2005 Hi ! I'm trying to find out as much as I can about my Granddad and his regiment Frederick Joseph Cooper b. 1971 Chorleton upon Medlock - Prince of Wales Volunteers (South Lancs) 1st Battalion I know he was in the Boer War and he was also in WW1 in France He was in Jersey Channel Islands at Fort Regent in 1890 but I don't know too much more! I would appreciate any help you could give me about him and the regiment I do have 2 medal cards - I'm hoping they are both his ..... !! Thanking you in advance Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 8 July , 2005 Share Posted 8 July , 2005 he was also in WW1 in France ... ... I do have 2 medal cards - I'm hoping they are both his ..... !! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Annie. Any chance of putting his MIC's on this thread so we can see them? You'll probably get a lot of info if you do. I can tell you now that, if he served in France, then he must have changed (at least) his battalion. The 1st battalion never served in France between 1914 and 18 and stayed in India throughout. Might I suggest, for your grandad's Boer War service, that you obtain a book entitled "Red Roses on the Veldt" by Lt.Col. John Downham (published in 2000, ISBN 1-85936-075-0) which is about the East, South and North Lancs Regiments in the Boer War and is now available quite cheaply from a variety of places. There are over 200 references to the 1st South Lancs in this war in this book including quite a few photographs. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 9 July , 2005 Author Share Posted 9 July , 2005 Annie. Any chance of putting his MIC's on this thread so we can see them? You'll probably get a lot of info if you do. I can tell you now that, if he served in France, then he must have changed (at least) his battalion. The 1st battalion never served in France between 1914 and 18 and stayed in India throughout. Might I suggest, for your grandad's Boer War service, that you obtain a book entitled "Red Roses on the Veldt" by Lt.Col. John Downham (published in 2000, ISBN 1-85936-075-0) which is about the East, South and North Lancs Regiments in the Boer War and is now available quite cheaply from a variety of places. There are over 200 references to the 1st South Lancs in this war in this book including quite a few photographs. Dave. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Dave Thank you so much for your reply! I can't put up his MIC's as I don't have a scanner but I have urged strongly for one as I have a birthday coming up!!!!!!! I thought my Granddad was in the first battalion - but it's possible he was in the second.....! I had all this information at one time - but due to a robbery - lost everything! I had a brass tin given by Princess Mary I believe to all soldiers in France - it still had razor blades in there and a bullet that Granddad had had in a belt across his body that had been shot at - and had saved his life!! I know for sure he was in Fort Regent St Helier Jersey Channel Islands in 1891 as he married my Grandmother there and I believe the regiment went to the Relief of Mafeking/Ladysmith I wish I could remember what I used to know - !!!! My Dad - Alfred Cooper was also a regular soldier in the same regiment - he was in India - Jubapore (?) approx 1923 - so anything at all you could tell me about the regiment or my family - would be very much appreciated!! Thanling you in advance Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernardmcilwaine Posted 9 July , 2005 Share Posted 9 July , 2005 annie,are you sure that he was born in chorlton-on-medlock,or could he have been born in tranmere and lived in C-o-M from being a baby,bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 9 July , 2005 Author Share Posted 9 July , 2005 annie,are you sure that he was born in chorlton-on-medlock,or could he have been born in tranmere and lived in C-o-M from being a baby,bernard <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good Morning Mr McIlwaine! You threw me for a loop there because - I don't have a birth certificate only a baptism.... I assumed..............and you know what they say about when you assume!! What do you have?? Annie PS Father Alfred Cooper Mother Charlotte Maria Cooper nee King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred W Posted 9 July , 2005 Share Posted 9 July , 2005 Here is your man at 54 Regent St., Newton in Makerfield, in the 1881 census Alfred Cooper age 35 Labourer in R Wgaon Works born London Charlotte Maria Cooper age 32 Wife borm Bledlow Bucks Frederick Joseph Cooper age 11 son born Manchester Charlotte Cooper age 9 dua born Manchester Alfred Cooper age 8 born Manchester Kinsley Cooper age 6 born Manchester Gilbert Cooper age 5 born Manchester Beatrice Coper age 3 born Earlstown John Smith Cooper age 1 born Burtonwood Hope this helps Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred W Posted 9 July , 2005 Share Posted 9 July , 2005 More info Annie, If you want to obtain his birth certificate go to www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificate/ and ask for birth certificate foe Frederick Joseph Cooper quoting Chorlton District Vol 8c page 664 June quarter 1870 Best of luck Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 9 July , 2005 Author Share Posted 9 July , 2005 More info Annie, If you want to obtain his birth certificate go to www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificate/ and ask for birth certificate foe Frederick Joseph Cooper quoting Chorlton District Vol 8c page 664 June quarter 1870 Best of luck Fred <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Fred Thank you I do have that census - that's why it didn't occur to me that he might have been born somewhere else as Bernard suggested!! I'm slowly wading through the BMD's I need for my family - and Frederick Joseph is definitely on the list..... I just want to know why Bernard said that..... what does he know that I don't ?? You watch Fred - he won't reply anytime soon - make me wait in suspense!! Thanks again for your help Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred W Posted 9 July , 2005 Share Posted 9 July , 2005 Annie, Since the birth was registered in Chorlton I will bet you are correct. Just for interest there was 5561 Private Cooper A in the South Lancs wounded at Three tree hill in 20 Jan 1900. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 9 July , 2005 Author Share Posted 9 July , 2005 Annie, Since the birth was registered in Chorlton I will bet you are correct. Just for interest there was 5561 Private Cooper A in the South Lancs wounded at Three tree hill in 20 Jan 1900. Fred <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Fred for your support - now I don't feel quite so shocked!! I don't know about the A Cooper in 1900 - Greatgranddad Alfred would have been too old and my Dad too young .... but I'll certainly check him out - maybe a relative ( I have those coming out of the woodwork - I'm scared to pass anybody up - just in case...!! - must be a woman thing!!...) Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_B Posted 9 July , 2005 Share Posted 9 July , 2005 Hi Dave Thank you so much for your reply! I can't put up his MIC's as I don't have a scanner but I have urged strongly for one as I have a birthday coming up!!!!!!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You don't need a scanner to post the MIC's you downloaded. Just attach the pdf file(s) to a post. Look fo the "attachments box" beneath where you enter yoour message text. They are only about 112mb each, so can can get one file (wth the six card images) attached per message. Alternatively. just use the "graphics select tool" button in your acrobat reader software to select the area of the MIC, and you can "cut and paste" that to a file which you can then attach to a forum message. Hope that helps. Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 9 July , 2005 Author Share Posted 9 July , 2005 You don't need a scanner to post the MIC's you downloaded. Just attach the pdf file(s) to a post. Look fo the "attachments box" beneath where you enter yoour message text. They are only about 112mb each, so can can get one file (wth the six card images) attached per message. Alternatively. just use the "graphics select tool" button in your acrobat reader software to select the area of the MIC, and you can "cut and paste" that to a file which you can then attach to a forum message. Hope that helps. Chris. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Chris I'm computer illiterate and just had to reboot because I think I messed up the medal card upload!! I have to wait for my son to come !! Fred - would my Granddad have requested to change battallions or would he have just been transfered ? - I know he was in the first batt. because of him being in Jersey and I know he was in Boer war and WW1 Bernard - why did you ask about Tranmere - what do you know?? Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernardmcilwaine Posted 10 July , 2005 Share Posted 10 July , 2005 nothing important annie,i found a name that matched,but it looks like you are correct in the 1st place,i was just looking round to see if there was owt i could find out for you,if theres anything out there,these folks will find it,they are always glad to help out the "colorado kid",bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 10 July , 2005 Author Share Posted 10 July , 2005 nothing important annie,i found a name that matched,but it looks like you are correct in the 1st place,i was just looking round to see if there was owt i could find out for you,if theres anything out there,these folks will find it,they are always glad to help out the "colorado kid",bernard <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for looking - I appreciate your help - if you come up with something - even if it's bad - I'd still like to know !!! -( you never know!! ) I know when I had his service book - it had his postings and dates of his childrens births etc His will - all kinds of stuff.... boy I wish I still had it!! Thanks again Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ste Posted 5 August , 2005 Share Posted 5 August , 2005 Here is your man at 54 Regent St., Newton in Makerfield, in the 1881 census <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Annie, Newton-in-Makerfield is now called Newton-le-Willows. It practically merges with the neighbouring town of Earlestown, and in fact, Regent St is actually in Earlestown. It's only a handful of miles from where I live. Cheers, S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 5 August , 2005 Author Share Posted 5 August , 2005 Annie, Newton-in-Makerfield is now called Newton-le-Willows. It practically merges with the neighbouring town of Earlestown, and in fact, Regent St is actually in Earlestown. It's only a handful of miles from where I live. Cheers, S <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Ste Thank you for that! - do you happen to know if there are any photos of the area that I could access ?both then and now - I've tried the Manchester Library site already! I'm also trying to find out as much as I can about 1st batt South Lancs regiment - my Granddad started off in that regiment before going on to the Rifle Brigade - I have the book Red Roses on the Veldt per your recomendation - but I still need as much as I can - as I am doing a Roll of Honour .... Thanks again for your reply Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ste Posted 5 August , 2005 Share Posted 5 August , 2005 Hi Ste Thank you for that! - do you happen to know if there are any photos of the area that I could access ?both then and now - I've tried the Manchester Library site already! The place to go for old photos of the area is the St Helens Local History and Archive Library (Newton / Earlestown coming under the St Helens local authority since local government re-organisation in the early 1970s): Local History and Archives Library Central Library Gamble Institute Victoria Square St. Helens Merseyside WA10 1DY Tel: 01744 456952 Fax: 01744 20836 Email: localhistory&archivesservices@sthelens.gov.uk I can help out with photos of the area as it is now, but when I get a new camera (I recently broke mine by falling over with it in my pocket!). I'm also trying to find out as much as I can about 1st batt South Lancs regiment - my Granddad started off in that regiment before going on to the Rifle Brigade - I have the book Red Roses on the Veldt per your recomendation - but I still need as much as I can - as I am doing a Roll of Honour .... I second Croonaert's recommendations on another thread; I could copy the relevant parts of the Mullaly / Whally-Kelly regimental histories for you if you like. Email me if so. I have read the Appleton book about the Volunteer Company in the Boer War, but not his general one. The one I read is actually a collection of short articles by various members of the Volunteer Active Service Company, threaded together with Captain Appleton's narrative. Some of it is really very good. I recall one native of Earlestown, a Samuel Foden Moss, as being a particularly gifted contributor. The local archive (see above) have a copy, but they are very protective of their collection; you could ask for a copy to be made. However, bear in mind that although the Volunteer Company were attached to the 1st Battalion in in South Africa, their perspective is but one making up the whole experience of the battalion. Unfortunately, Captain Appleton shot himself in Tunbridge Wells in late 1914, having been mobilised with the 1/4 South Lancs upon the outbreak of the Great War. Very sad. I have some photos of the regimental memorial to the Boer War casualties (the one in Warrington - featured in Red Roses on the Veldt); I'd be happy to email those to you if you like. Cheers, Ste Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 5 August , 2005 Author Share Posted 5 August , 2005 The place to go for old photos of the area is the St Helens Local History and Archive Library (Newton / Earlestown coming under the St Helens local authority since local government re-organisation in the early 1970s): Local History and Archives Library Central Library Gamble Institute Victoria Square St. Helens Merseyside WA10 1DY Tel: 01744 456952 Fax: 01744 20836 Email: localhistory&archivesservices@sthelens.gov.uk I can help out with photos of the area as it is now, but when I get a new camera (I recently broke mine by falling over with it in my pocket!). I second Croonaert's recommendations on another thread; I could copy the relevant parts of the Mullaly / Whally-Kelly regimental histories for you if you like. Email me if so. I have read the Appleton book about the Volunteer Company in the Boer War, but not his general one. The one I read is actually a collection of short articles by various members of the Volunteer Active Service Company, threaded together with Captain Appleton's narrative. Some of it is really very good. I recall one native of Earlestown, a Samuel Foden Moss, as being a particularly gifted contributor. The local archive (see above) have a copy, but they are very protective of their collection; you could ask for a copy to be made. However, bear in mind that although the Volunteer Company were attached to the 1st Battalion in in South Africa, their perspective is but one making up the whole experience of the battalion. Unfortunately, Captain Appleton shot himself in Tunbridge Wells in late 1914, having been mobilised with the 1/4 South Lancs upon the outbreak of the Great War. Very sad. I have some photos of the regimental memorial to the Boer War casualties (the one in Warrington - featured in Red Roses on the Veldt); I'd be happy to email those to you if you like. Cheers, Ste <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't know what happened but my reply just went into cyberspace!! Ste - I have sent you an email - I would love whatever you can give me!! Thank you so much!! Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 6 August , 2005 Author Share Posted 6 August , 2005 I don't know what happened but my reply just went into cyberspace!! Ste - I have sent you an email - I would love whatever you can give me!! Thank you so much!! Annie <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I know I'm sounding like a broken record but I 'm still trying to find out how to check the Queens+Kings South Africa medal rolls for Frederick Joseph Cooper Any help would be much appreciated!! Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 6 August , 2005 Share Posted 6 August , 2005 The rolls are held at the NA , Kew and IIRC are by regiment rather than name indexed (certainly the Queens Mediteranean Medal roll is) Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 7 August , 2005 Share Posted 7 August , 2005 The rolls for the South Lancs are/were also held at Fulwood, Preston. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 7 August , 2005 Author Share Posted 7 August , 2005 The rolls for the South Lancs are/were also held at Fulwood, Preston. Dave. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Dave Thank you VERY much!! Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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