Lost at Sea

[JEB]

My grandfather's diary entry for 1st Jan 1918 appears to record that he'd received news of his younger brother having been washed overboard and drowned. I searched the CWG web-site and found what appears to be a good match

Chatham Memorial

Ordinary Seaman Ronald John Barton

Service No. J/20462

HMS Cornwallis

Died 30th December

The only problem is that it says that he died in 1914!

My first thought was that perhaps there was a mistake with the year, but having researched HMS Cornwallis, I find that she was sunk well before the end of 1917.

There seem to be 2 possibilities:

1. This is another Ronald John Barton, also lost at sea. Quite a coincidence!

2. I've mis-interpreted the diary, and my grandfather was recording the anniversary of receiving the news. He didn't mention it on 1st Jan 1917, and unfortunately his diaries from the first 2 years of the war have been lost.

Can anyone advise how I could go about confirming whether the man commemorated on the Chatham Memorial is my Great Uncle?

Thanks,

John

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Service No. J/20462

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi John

The register of service for this man is on microfilm at Kew in ADM 188/687 and that record will show his date and place of birth.

Your great uncle might have been in the merchant navy, if he was washed over board that probably wouldn’t have counted as a war death. There have been various threads on the mean spirited way the mercantile marine was treated.

Fred

[DirtyDick]

Service number J20462 indicates that he joined the Seaman Branch of the Royal Navy in 1912.

If he was over the age of 18 upon enlistment he would have automatically become an Ordinary Seaman; if he joined as a Boy (between 16 and 18) he would be made up to OS at age 18.

Men stayed at this rating for about two years, until they had been trained up to the required standard and subsequently rated as an Able Seaman.

Consequently, if he was an Ordinary Seaman in 1912 he should have been made up to AB by 1914-15.

The CWGC is littered with inaccuracies, so it might be a mistake in either year of death (less likely) or his rating at time of death.

Best bet is to get his ADM188 (office copy of service papers) from Kew. A researcher can do this for around £5 (I can put you in touch with one) and the RN records are c.100% complete. This will list place and date of birth, which should help immeasurably in determining kinship.

If still uncertain, RN records can be viewed alphabetically, to determine whether another man of the same name was serving.

Richard

[Terry Denham]

The RN section of the GRO Overseas Death Index confirms the details held by CWGC.

This particular R.J.Barton died in 1914.

His death certificate reference is RN.215 if you wish to order a copy. Giving the ref. will reduce the cost.

[JEB]

Many thanks to all for the speedy and informative replies!

I checked my grandfather's diary again last night and I think I've solved the mystery. Unfortunately many parts of it are barely legible, but looking closely at the start of the sentence that includes "Ronald washed overboard and drowned", it could say "Three years today..". The joys of trying to decipher old, faded, damp-damaged hand writing!

I know that his brother Ronald was 4 at the time of the 1901 census. Assuming that his birthday was later in the year, that would mean that he was 16 in 1912 when the seaman listed on the Chatham Memorial enlisted and 18 in 1914. This resolves the question about why he was still an Ordinary Seaman in late 1914.

I think it's safe to assume that this man is my great uncle.

I hope you'll forgive some novice questions:

Richard / Fred - Is the ADM188 the same as the Certificate of Service that I have for my grandfather? Many parts of that are difficult or impossible to read. It would be very helpful if I could get hold of a more legible copy. I'd certainly be interested in getting a copy of his brother's service records. I feel a new line of research opening up!

Terry - How would I order a copy of the death certificate you identified?

Thanks for all your help,

John

[DirtyDick]

Hello John

The ADM188 is the official 'office' copy of the personal Certificate of Service that was maintained by the RN for future reference and in case the man's Certificate of Service was lost and needed to be replaced.

The ADM188s replicate the CS but contain far less personal information -although they list ships, rates and place and DOB - but if the CS is illegible it will be of use as this copy was usually completed by another hand!

You could always post a scan of the said entries here and we can see whether they make sense.

If you want I can put you in touch with a very good researcher. He can pick up one of these for under a fiver (incl. postage).

PM me if interested.

Richard

[Terry Denham]

John

You can order a certifcate here

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

Ensure you order from the Overseas section