Victory and 14-20 War medals

[Muerrisch]

I know from AOs that the Victory and War medals were authorised in 1919.

Please does anyone know when they were actually distributed, and was it automatic issue to other ranks even if they had left the service? If they were posted, was it registered post? . The clasp and roses for the 1914 star had to be claimed, using a special form from the post office.

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

My grandfather, who was RAF, got his BWM & Victory medal in 1923. His brother, who was Labour Corps, got his pair in 1922 and their middle brother, PBI, got his 1914/15 Star in 1921 and the pair in 1922.

None of them were Ruperts so the issue was automatic and all had been demobbed at the time of receipt. The medals were sent to the addresses on their Protection Certificates.

Ian

[Muerrisch]

Thank you Ian, that is fascinating, I hope other replies give similar dates. I have seen a photo of a soldier wearing DCM, MM, and 1914 star with clasp. I know the photo can not be earlier than early 1923, so the implication is he was still sweating on the postman. In 1923!! ..... the authorities hardly rushed them out, did they?

[Guest Hill 60]

My Great Grandfather got his 1915 trio in 1920. Amongst his paperwork is a form from the RAMC asking if he was still living at the same address as on his paperwork so that his medals could be sent on.

[CROONAERT]

Were the actual ribbon bars issued before the medals themselves?

I ask this because I've got a couple of oddly dated photos of soldiers wearing the ribbons on their uniforms. One is dated 1919 and shows a group of Lancs.Fusiliers in Germany wearing the ribbon of the BWM (only). The other is dated Xmas 1917 and shows a soldier (unit not identified) wearing the ribbon of the 1914 (or 14/15) star.

Dave.

[Muerrisch]

Certainly the ribbons of some gallantry awards were issued "awarded" "presented" before the gong itself pitched up. There is reference to this being done in a unit War Diary in my possession. It is the case that a piece of ribbon only costs pence, and I suppose any soldier wishing to avail himself had only to write a letter. Or perhaps the French corner shops were doing a roaring trade?

[Guest FRANKBARTHOLOMEW]

Out of interest, when were the ribbons for the Mons Star, 14/15 Star, BWM and Victory Medal first made available?

I have seen photographs of men with Mons Stars in early 1918- and in Blackadder Goes Forth (not entirely accurate, but just for the record): Captain Blackadder et al have their Mons Stars in c. May 1917.

[Muerrisch]

1914 star authorised 24 November 1917, AO 350. Cannot see anybody getting hold of the ribbon before 1918. The medal roll for 1914 star for RWF is dated Feb 1919 so, technically, there was no legal entitlement to wear it before then. Indeed, I have seen an AO or ACI forbidding the wearing of it by non-entitled personnel, date uncertain. Could look for it if needs be.

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

The medal roll for the 1914 star of the 89 Coy ASC is dated December 1917.

Ian

[Paul Reed]

1914 star authorised 24 November 1917, AO 350. Cannot see anybody getting hold of the ribbon before 1918.

I have read at least one war diary for December 1917 which stated a parade was held to hand out the ribbon of the 1914 star to those entitled to it. Unfortunately, I forget which unit this was!

[Muerrisch]

Apologies. I am guilty of misinformation. Regarding RWF Medal Roll 1914 star, I just took the date off the front page, which is in fact the last date I can find having riffled through the hundredweight of pages. There are over 4000 names, and about 6 to a page. Each page carries a date. These dates are suggestive that 2RWF was worked on in Jan and Feb 1918, and then 1RWF. [1RWF might have been a bigger problem because of the shocking casualties in October 1914, when all but wiped out twice]. 4RWF [TF] was worked on in August 1914.

Sorry about that.

Can interested parties please compete for earliest/latest dates of either ribbons or medals distributed? Potentially invaluable for dating photographs, of course.

[Will O'Brien]

The actual distribution of medals doesn't seem to differ from personnel who were still alive to those who had died. In my possession I have a letter from the Infantry Records Office in Hamilton which pertains to my Great Uncle who died in 1916 confirming dispatch of his BWM & VM - this is dated 13th January 1922

Will

[Muerrisch]

Thank you, another piece of the jigsaw. Do you know, I see I wrote 4RWF roll worked on in August 1914. I suppose I type that so often my typing finger [just the one] does it in auto. Sorry. Meant August 1918 [watching finger move hesitantly to do as it is told]. Yes, did it.

[Muerrisch]

Found another piece of ribbon-issue jigsaw at PRO in ACIs.

ACI 1855 of 22 Dec 1917 authorised COs to indent for 4" of 1914 star riband [sic] for each individual now serving who is entitled to the decoration.

One would expect any photo of any soldier wearing the ribbon before New Year 1918 to be very interesting indeed.

[BeppoSapone]

Apologies. I am guilty of misinformation. Regarding RWF Medal Roll 1914 star, I just took the date off the front page, which is in fact the last date I can find having riffled through the hundredweight of pages. There are over 4000 names, and about 6 to a page. Each page carries a date. These dates are suggestive that 2RWF was worked on in Jan and Feb 1918, and then 1RWF. [1RWF might have been a bigger problem because of the shocking casualties in October 1914, when all but wiped out twice]. 4RWF [TF] was worked on in August 1914.

Sorry about that.

Can interested parties please compete for earliest/latest dates of either ribbons or medals distributed? Potentially invaluable for dating photographs, of course.

One T Corder Catchpool of the Society of Friends was a Conscientious Objector in WW1 and was oversea's by late 1914. IIRC he actually returned to England from France to become a C.O. in 1916 because, although he was prepared to volunteer to serve oversea's, he strongly objected to compulsion.

Page 174 of the book "On Two Fronts" concerns his 4th D.C.M. of 26th October 1917, and enables one to see that he somehow 'aquired' his 1914 Star ribbon between 26th and 28th October 1917.

"When two days later he was 'read out' again he was wearing for the first time his 'Mons Ribbon' which had been awarded to him by the War Office in recognition of his work with the F.A.U. in 1914"

Corder Catchpool either didn't impress, or antagonised, the C/M as, wearing his ribbon, he was sentenced to 18 months "hard labour". This was three times as long as any of his previous sentences. Maybe it was when, in a passing reference to his 'Mons Star' ribbon he said: ..."I hold it a greater honour to have been called to witness for the cause of Peace, and for that I shall receive no ribbon."