A Novice from Oz Planning to Visit in Sep/Oct

[green_acorn]

Hi all would greatly appreciate tips and advice.

I hope to have about 3-4 weeks in Europe in Sep/Oct, to do the normal tourist things, some initial research at the NA/IWM, NAM and some Regt museums and visit some family specific sites (Marchwood and Houplines) then the Somme, Ypres and Verdun. Obviuosly as a fourth generation soldier WW1, WW2, SVN and me, I have to incorporate the Australian battles and memorials in my pilgrimage, I'll get Field Punishment if I don't.

My thought was to fly in, do a week of the terry tourist round London and Marchwood, where I lived for a while 39 years ago), then do a battlefield trip for a week, back to the NA, onto another battlefield trip, back to the NA, trip to the clan land and finally visit Verdun and Paris and wherever else by train

My questions to the pals, are the trips offered by Leger and co adaptable for my needs? (I am emailing Leger for advice as well). There seem to be some date overlap on the Leger walking tours on the Somme and Salient and Flanders Fields. As I would really like to travel with a group of like minded individuals and an experienced guide, I would appreciate any advice on alternative solutions. What side trips and events would pals also suggest for an Aussie,

looking forward to your guidance,

Chris

[Guest]

I have no experience of Leger, but travelling in a group has to beat going alone, as at least you will be with someone who talks English.

Touring on your own can be a bit lonely if you don't talk the lingo.

[paul guthrie]

If you do a search you will find quite a few references to Leger & people who used them, pretty much all favorable.

[Cotswold]

Hi Chris,

My very first 'Battlefield' experience was as part of a Leger Tour, Walking the Ypres Salient.

Speaking from a personal point of view, I thoroughly enjoyed the tour. The two tour guides were experienced and very passionate about the Battlefields and the Soldiers and really brought the tour alive. I met a lot of very nice people on my tour, of various age groups. Leger provides walking tours aswell as on the coach of the coach tours, depending on your physical ability. I thought Leger were great value and very well organised, I can only speak as I find.

Of course, you could organise your own tour to suit your own requirements/interests. There are plenty of independent Battlefield Guides around Ypres.

Kind Regards,

Donna

[green_acorn]

I'd like to thank those who have offered tips and advice. I will sit down tonight with a friend who has been there and do a rough plan.

Just a pity that leger haven't replied,

cheers,

Chris

[Paul Reed]

Chris - a reply is already with you from me. As you may appreciate from reading other threads on the forum, it has been a busy weekend on the Somme and I have been otherwise occupied.

If you have contacted Leger direct, then let me know my email what address you used and who you contacted.

[green_acorn]

Paul,

Thank you, this probably got caught in the time zones and I have emailed you. Your email definetely cleared up my query on the apparent overlap of tours. I'm looking forward to meeting you in September/October,

Chris

[green_acorn]

Thank you to Legers Holidays, I had emailed their reservations contact on 29 Jun expecting an email response, this morning 6 Jul their battlefield holidays brochure arrived by mail here in Australia.

[green_acorn]

Thank you to all who have offered advice and assistance, could I ask one series of question as my Flemish and French is non existent and I couldn't find them. Are there good quality maps of the Belgium and French Rail networks showing the smaller towns like Menen? As I would like to base myself for a few days beofre a leger holiday and then go and work from Amiens. Therefore, I'd like to minimise my time by car and be able to stare out the window and soak up the language etc. Next is it possible to go across to Verdun by train from Amiens or Arraras or would I need to go into Paris first and go back out to Verdun?

looking forward to any advice,

Chris

[BlackSeptember1918]

G'day Chris

Your trip sounds like it will be great mate !.

Me and the boss have just been back from a trip over there for a couple of weeks , and although these few tips probably don't have any use for you , they may help someone else who is thinking about going over from Oz .

We went to U.K. first and then over to France via the channel tunnel . We had pre-hired a car from Hertz . There actually isn't a Hertz office at the Frethune station ??( although on booking we were told there was ).. so had to make our way to the office .. a bit of an inconvienience . There is a Europcar and Avis office at the station . Hire a diesel as it's heaps cheaper on juice over there ( about 30 Aussie cents a Litre ), also get one with GPS as that computer girl was the greatest . Take a moment to learn how to use it .. you can select no motorways and stuff like that .( although don't trust her is small towns or you will find yourself turning into every oneway street the wrong way !!..trust me ! ) .

We found the Lonely Planet phrase books to be indispenable , the pocket sized ones ( they also have a adaquate culinery translation which helps when the stomache starts growling ). Everywhere we went we did our best to try to be understood in the countries language . By doing that I think we got so much of a more friendly reaction from the locals ( also remember a big smile means the same in all languages ) .

Our trip was Ypres , Albert , Verdun , then over to Hiedelburg , Rothenburg , Fussen , Salzburg , Regensburg , then flew down to Rome and flew back home from there . If your doing the battlefields without help I can't stress how useful the GPS is . We would locate a spot on the Holt's map and just scroll to a similar location on the GPS and she would take us right to the spot every time .

Christina was so very kind to show us around the Verdun area , which made everything very simple there .

All in all.... an experience of a lifetime !.

Hope yours is also mate .

Phil.

[green_acorn]

Phil,

Thank you, I am looking forward to it. Your advice about the car and GPS will be invaluable as it looks as though it would be easier to hire a car after the Legers tour I am booking, to do the area around Amiens and get across to Verdun, before heading of to Paris. I intend flying into Frankfurt and was going to go up to Amsterdam and then down to Brussells, but it looks as though I might cut out Amsterdam to catch some events in France I would like to get to.

One of the intents of my wandering is to get a better appreciation of a train watching spy network described in "The Secrets of Rue St Roche" by Janet Morgan, which operated in 1918 in Luxembourg. Surprisingly enough two AIF officers were involved in it, just a pity that Janet Morgan mis-identifies them (Boccard and Priestley, wrong christian names*). And it still amazes me that a guy would fly a balloon over the German lines from Verdun during their 1918 spring offensive to drop into Luxembourg at night, that is courage.

Thanks again,

Chris

* Boccard was born in France, and was in Australia when war started, he remained in France for a few years after the war before returning to Australia.

Priestely was born in England, emigrated to Australia and also enlisted in the AIF, I think he had been a Territorial in the early 1900's. He discharged in the UK, I don't think he ever returned to Australia.

[healdav]

Let me know when you intend to be in Luxembourg and if possible I will show you around.

I know the 'Secrets' story backwards, having lived it for 20 odd years now. - and I know the rest of Luxembourg like the back of my hand as well (being the only foreigner who teaches the history of the country and guides as well). We could do some WW1 sites and such thyings as Battle of the Bulge front line, etc.

Let me know.

[Guest]

Just a quick thought.

Us Brits will probably know you are Australian from your accent, which is a good thing for you as most of us tend to like Australians.

But over on mainland Europe they may take you for a Brit, but they probably also tend to like Australians, so no harm in letting people know where you are from.

It isn't that they hate us Brits, but in the places you are visiting we are just part of their everyday experience.

[Muerrisch]

If you do a search you will find quite a few references to Leger & people who used them, pretty much all favorable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

With my honourable exception, which was aimed at Leger in general, and certainly not at the Battlefield trips. If / when I get too old to run my own trips, I would use the latter.

[green_acorn]

Let me know when you intend to be in Luxembourg and if possible I will show you around.

I know the 'Secrets' story backwards, having lived it for 20 odd years now. - and I know the rest of Luxembourg like the back of my hand as well (being the only foreigner who teaches the history of the country and guides as well). We could do some WW1 sites and such thyings as Battle of the Bulge front line, etc.

Let me know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hadn't actually contemplated staying in Luxembourg very long, but would enjoy staying a little longer to get a better appreciation of the country and events. I had plannned for being in Europe on 17 Sep and catching a day train down via Koblenz from Frankfurt on 19 Sep and an afternoon train to Brussells. Any advice you can provide would be greatly appreciated as I would like to take up your offer and spend a little longer there.

I want to be over at Amiens on 25 Sep to see LeP'tit train de la Haute Somme and that is the last day they run for the year, that I could get to. I have been told a great little story about an Australian Rail Crew who took their train behind the German lines for 3-4 days to recover abandoned artillery in March 1918. The Driver SGT Tulip Ross, 1 Aust Railway Operating Coy, was awarded the DCM for his actions.

cheers,

Chris

[green_acorn]

Angie,

Thank you, I will struggle with the phrasebook and make sure a Kangaroo is evident. I recall when I was there as a child in the mid 60's my father was having difficulty getting an arrogant German waitress to serve us, because she thought we were English. A gentleman at the next table asked my father who was in uniform whether we were Australian, positive reply and we ended getting surved for free as he had been in the Afrika Korps and respected the 9th Division!

Chris

[green_acorn]

With my honourable exception, which was aimed at Leger in general, and certainly not at the Battlefield trips.  If / when I get too old to run my own trips, I would use the latter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you I am actually tossing up going with them as, other than getting the opportunity to chat with others and get another perspective, I will have already been in the area a few days and may end up repeating sites,

Chris

[healdav]

I hadn't actually contemplated staying in Luxembourg very long, but would enjoy staying a little longer to get a better appreciation of the country and events. I had plannned for being in Europe on 17 Sep and catching a day train down via Koblenz from Frankfurt on 19 Sep and an afternoon train to Brussells. Any advice you can provide would be greatly appreciated as I would like to take up your offer and spend a little longer there.

I want to be over at Amiens on 25 Sep to see LeP'tit train de la Haute Somme and that is the last day they run for the year, that I could get to. I have been told a great little story about an Australian Rail Crew who took their train behind the German lines for 3-4 days to recover abandoned artillery in March 1918. The Driver SGT Tulip Ross, 1 Aust Railway Operating Coy, was awarded the DCM for his actions.

cheers,

Chris

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your dates will be impssible for me as I shall probably be in the South of France on holiday then or on my way back (it's complicated this year as I have to go via England as a daughter is getting married).

However, if you like to send your e-mail address to me at healdav@vol.lu I will let you have a list of WW1 sites and others in the country. Of course, if I am going to be back by the17th/18th I will let you know later.

Don't try to find where the balloon took off from near Verdun. I can't trace it precisely (not surprisingly).

[paul guthrie]

I can't imagine an Ozzie not going to Villers Bret, well there is a terrific restaurant for such a small place, it's named le Kangorou, I kid you not! Go for it!

[green_acorn]

Thank you to everyone for your advice and tips, most rewarding and appreciated, I am indebted to all of you.

A friend in the UK who looked over my itinereray suggested I was trying to cram too much in, so I have adjusted my dates to base myself out of the UK, then go to Paris and work my way up via Amines, Villers Bret, Houplines where my Great-Grandad broke a leg falling of a motorbike whilst inspecting the inland waterway support for the troops. Then onto the Salient and back to London and onto Scotland and various Corps Museums and some research on WW2 at the NA. Finally I am then heading of to Turkey for a few days, before going up into Germany and Benelux before coming home from Frankfurt