Battlefield debris

[Guest Rick F]

Hello all:

This may seem a naive or foolish question, but here goes anyway: I have read in guidebooks and on the internet that many battlefields still have quite a bit of war debris still in evidence. I have seen the photos of stacks of shells waiting for disposal, etc. Question is - is this still evident today? When walking a field, are there rounds, shell casings, bits of kit, etc, just lying around? Also, is it possible to purchase battlefield debris from legitmate sources for souviners, etc? Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Rick

[Chris_Baker]

Rick, as a general answer - no longer are there great piles of stuff lying around. In certain areas if you look very closely and have a bit of an expert eye for spotting odd shapes in amongst the stones and bits of chalk in muddy fields you may find the odd cartridge case, bit of shell fragment, shrapnel bullet, buckle. You may come across shells or grenades that have been found and placed ready for disposal - my strong advice is take your photos and do not touch. These things are most often found by a farm gate, or cemetery wall.

[Max Poilu]

Rick,

For a mountain of previous discussion just type 'relics' into the search and settle down for an evening's reading...

relics, relics, relics, relics, relics..............

[Paul Reed]

You can buy battlefield relics from places like the Musee des Abris in Albert, Delville Wood (both on the Somme) and Hooge at Ypres.

[Rob Gray]

Rick,

If you're visiting at the end of July, then there won't be many items of debris visible on the surface due to plant growth - the best time to spot stuff is during the winter, far better to visit during from October to March, then all sorts of bits & pieces can be found - like this German Egg Grenade I found back in February near Beaumont Hamel - best photographed and left for the professionals to dispose of..!!!

[Marco]

Rob,

Weren't you tempted to hit it with a wedge? Or would a 9 Iron be better?

Regards,

Marco

[Marco]

blame it on the short US vacations and the distance involved

Euh, Rick could you give your PRECISE travel details etc? I wouldn't want to to be at CdG airport when you fly back with your legit bought souvenirs. We had a chap a few weeks back closing down the chanel tunnel with his souvenirs for several hrs which pissed off some forum members who had to wait

Regards,

Marco

[healdav]

It all depends where you are. Around Verdun the fields still seem to be mostly made up of bits of shell, etc.

I've seen shrapnel shells, shell cases, horse shoes, grenades, you name it - and I wasn't looking for souvenirs.

[Patrick H]

There is still plenty of this "debris" laying around and at ploughing time you can often see little piles left for collection. I have stood at Sheffield Park watching a field being ploughed the tractor being followed by two men who frequently stooped to pick up stuff, which they then piled in one corner. But, as stated by others, its best left alone !!

I cant believe the idiots who try to bring the dangerous material home. I was once stopped at Calais and on confirming I had been to the Somme my car was subjected to a thorough search by the police, and quite rightly! I wasn't carrying anything

Patrick

[Marco]

try to bring the dangerous material home

Even when you leave the 'dangerous' bit out you still can get into a heap of trouble at coustums. Mind you if Rick is flying from CdG he might be able to get a small nucliar device through. These are the same jokers who 'lost' an amount of substitute drugs during their checks when they put it in the suitcase of an unknown traveler

Regards,

Marco

[paul guthrie]

I have had metal detector at CDG alert on one key in my billfold.

[AOK4]

Bear in mind that it is illegal to pick up things around Verdun...

[healdav]

Anywhere, actually. Not just Verdun.

[Borderman]

I’m new to this, so please forgive me if this has already been answered in another thread. Anyway here goes.. If it is illegal to pick things up from the battlefields (ie used cartridge cases, shrapnel balls etc) how come these very things are being blatantly sold as souvenirs all over the place. And what I don’t get is how come some places have so many shrapnel balls to sell? They are very hard to see on a clay/chalk soil. Do they use electronic gadgetry to help them? And isn’t that illegal? To buy goods illegally obtained is a crime as is to sell them on…? Then of course there’s the morality (after reading some threads - the hypocrisy) of this trade.

Sorry, I’m all confused.

[Rob Gray]

Borderman,

Yes, it's illegal to pick up battlefield debris and remove it for whatever purpose.

In reality however, most French Police turn a blind eye to the casual battlefield walkers picking up debris of the type that you have described.

They do, however, take action against those using metal detectors or those digging for relics on battlefield sites, (rightly so in my opinion).

With regards to the sale of relics by local French establishments etc, many of these items for sale have clearly not been acquired by a casual stroll across a ploughed field, but presumably the vendors have already made their peace with the local Police..??

You only have to visit a well known cafe on the Somme, which now looks more like an Ammo dump..!!

Rob.

[Max Poilu]

I’m new to this, so please forgive me if this has already been answered in another thread.  Anyway here goes..  If it is illegal to pick things up from the battlefields (ie used cartridge cases, shrapnel balls etc) how come these very things are being blatantly sold as souvenirs all over the place.  And what I don’t get is how come some places have so many shrapnel balls to sell?  They are very hard to see on a clay/chalk soil.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As above, type 'relics' into the search engine and every aspect of this favourite forum discussion topic will be covered.

As for spotting shrapnel balls once you have learnt to 'see' them they stick out like a sore thumb. Especially after a downpour. In years gone by locals talked of shrapnel balls flowing down the streets like rivers of water after the storms. They are less common now but there are still millions and millions to be found.

[paul guthrie]

Each time this comes up I remind folks that I have actually seen French police arrest a man for relic picking.

[uncle bill]

I got checked out by the gendarmes twice in one day last week on the Somme.

[Rob Gray]

Never seen a Gendarme remotely interested in Battlefield walkers, (not plunderers I hasten to add), however, they do seem to take a keen interest in monitoring the speed of vehicles on the main N Road through Le Sars/Pozieres/La Boiselle - they were there last week with a very sophisticated looking piece of long range kit on a tripod on the up slope through La Boiselle towards Pozieres.

No, they didn't get me..!!, I have learned to stick to speed limits in France, because everytime I go over, (about 3 - 4 times a year), I ALWAYS get gunned in a speed trap..!!

With that to look out for, together with the dreaded black crosses, (give way to traffic entering from the right, even though you have a dead straight, clear road ahead of you), you certainly need to keep your wits about you when driving in France.

Rob.

[Borderman]

It’s all a bit sad really. My father walked around a couple of places in the Somme and Ypres in the late 60’s following his fathers ‘tracks’. His photos of British steel helmets casually rusting on fence posts, old boots and water bottles, wire still strung through pickets, skeletal .303s in the brambles, lends a poignant reminder to the events that happened in these old fields and woods.

Sadly these things have long been collected, I suppose, and sold. Everything we take from the fields, everything we buy as a ‘legitimate’ relic/souvenir diminishes the very places we cherish.

As a child, I loved walking through the wooded valley of the river Petrill near my home. The bluebells were so thick across the ground it was if you were splashing through an indigo sea. My mother took a few to plant under an old apple tree in the garden. No doubt others did the same; after all with so many how could a few make a difference. There are still bluebells in those woods and if you look carefully and are very lucky, you might even see some.

[TommyMan]

Hello all:

This may seem a naive or foolish question, but here goes anyway: I have read in guidebooks and on the internet that many battlefields still have quite a bit of war debris still in evidence. I have seen the photos of stacks of shells waiting for disposal, etc. Question is - is this still evident today? When walking a field, are there rounds, shell casings, bits of kit, etc, just lying around? Also, is it possible to purchase battlefield debris from legitmate sources for souviners, etc? Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Rick

Hi Rick,

I've been to the battlefields twice, once in july 2004 and then in feb 2005 and I must say feb is the best time to go as it is very quiet on the tourist front,the fields are freshly ploughed and from high ground in the right places you can see trench lines,shell holes and if you look closely enough plenty of relics,shrapnel balls, shell casings,barbed wire posts really you name it! The picture you see in my profile is my son on hawthorne ridge we found numerous amounts of relics some we looked at and some we picked up! but be careful there are alot of eighteen pounder shells and morters but most are on the edge of the fields waiting to be picked up.I've walked for miles over the battlefields and found hawthorne ridge,the sunken lane a good place if you want ther odd relic,plus you'll bound to find the odd english man with a metal detector longing to show you his finds!! Happy Hunting!! TommyMan.

[Simon R]

Don't forget about non-WWI artefacts i.e. the rest of human history not related to WWI. There is, for example, what appears to be a nice piece of flint to the left of the grenade in Rob Grays photo above.

We do often assume (I assume) that these places came into existence with the arrival of the BEF - isn't the Western Front 'just' another short, albeit intensely bloody, chapter in its long history? I only suggest this to put the war, and the artefacts we might commonly find, in a historical context: often entirely lacking from the British perspective. How do we put casual finds in their historic context when we take them from the ploughsoil? And what place prehistory in this landscape, simultaneously obliterated and unearthed, collected and taken to England?

ANYWAY, those are my thoughts for the day. Such as they are. Deary me.

[Alan Lines]

Managed to find enough shrapnel balls in one morning on the Somme to fill an empty 18 pounder case a couple of years ago, just over 300 I think.

[Borderman]

Why would you want to? I mean the weight alone; not to mention the time spent grubbing in the soil?

This is not a criticism at all, but it’s a long way to drive to be staring at your feet.