3/ prefix on a Devon Regt Service number.

[Duncan]

Does anyone know what the 3/ prefix on the Devon Regiment number 3/7294 refers to? Does it refer to the battalion, and if so does anyone know ehich battalion?

Cheers,

Duncan.

[Terry_Reeves]

Duncan

It means the 3rd Battalion. This was the Reserve Bn of the Devonshires which was at Exeter on the outbreak of war and moved to Plymouth on 8th August. It returned to Exeter on the 28th of the same month. From May 1915 until the end of the war, it was at Devonport as part of the Plymouth Garrison.

Terry Reeves

[Duncan]

Hi,

Then I guess he must have transferred to the 1st or 2nd battalions cause his MIC states that he landed in France on 1 Jan 1915, and the 3rd stayed in the UK throughout the war?

It also states that he was discharged on 28 Sept 1915, with no reason given and no Silver War Badge mentioned - bit odd that!

Cheers,

Duncan.

[enoch beard]

duncan,

the first issues of the silver war badge were not until september 1916, so maybe he did not bother to be issued with one

enoch

[SPotter]

More accurately the 3rd Bn was the Special Reserve Battalion.

It's intended use was to supply re-inforcements to the Line Battalions (1st, 2nd) in the field, but was used by many men in pre-war days as an introduction to Army life. If they liked it they would sign up for the Regulars and be given a Regular number or could choose to stay a Special Reservist. In the Great War it was not unusual for Special Reservists to retain their 3/---- numbers whilst serving with the regular battalions, even being quoted as being 3rd Bn attached 1st Bn.

The Infantry Special Reserve Bns stayed at Home throughout the war.

It would be hard to comment on the career of the soldier in question without a few more details.

Regards

Steve

[Muerrisch]

Special Reserve battalions were REQUESTED to prefix numbers with a 3/ but some did not. The SR battalions were used as a buffer, absorbing the wounded, unfit, partly trained, under age ..... and a man wounded from a fighting battalion would be attached to 3/ to go on the ration strength, and then reposted when fit again.

[Graham Stewart]

Sorry, have to disagree with that last comment, no such thing as 'requests' in the Armed Forces only Instructions and Orders.

Pre-fixing of regimental numbers is dealt with in Army Council Instructions, to be exact A.C.I.144 of 18th May 1915 entitled "Procedure to be adopted in dealing with Duplication of Regimental Numbers"

"The following procedure should be adopted, in order to deal with the duplication of regimental numbers which has been found to exist in certain regiments.

(1)In any regiment in which such duplication exists;-

(a)Every soldiers regimental number will be prefixed by the number of the battalion in which he is serving on the date of this letter(e.g.5/3492)."

(b)In the case of men enlisting on or after the date of this letter, the regimental number will be prefixed by the number of the battalion to which the man is first posted.

©In both cases(a) and(b)the numbers and prefix will be retained by the man as long as he remains in that regiment, and will not be effected by re-posting to another battalion of the same regiment.

(d)Officers i/c records should at once take steps to notify these instructions to O.C.'s all battalions affiliated to their offices in which duplication of numbers now exists, and Officers i/c records and O.C.'s will take the necessary steps to amend all documents in their possession accordingly.

(e)Officers i/c records concerned will cause O.C.'s units affiliated to their offices to furnish a certificate to them by the 1st June 1915, that all the documents in their possession have been amended in accordance with these instructions, and Officers i/c records will forward to the War Office by the 15th June 1915 a similair certificate with regard to documents in their possession adding that the certificates referred above to have been duly received from all C.O.'s concerned.

(2)In those regiments in which no duplication of numbers exists, either as a result of seperate block numbers having been allotted for each battalion, or in consequence of a system other than that described above having been introduced to deal with the matter, it is not desired that any special orders should now be issued. It should, however, be made clear to all concerned that no alteration of number or prefix should take place if a man is re-posted to a different battalion of the same regiment."

(L.35/Inf/734, A.G.2B)

In the case of the Northumberland Fusiliers the use of prefixing regimental numbers for the 16th to 32nd Battalions began on the formation of these units. Somewhere among my archive I have a reference to the Reserve Battalions and their numbering, which pre-dates the war, but I cant lay my hand on it.

If you want to know more about regimental numbering then read Kings Regulations, Territorial Force Regulations and Army Council Instructions. The latter covers it in detail during the war years.

Regards,

Graham.

[Muerrisch]

Yes, I have the ACI. I should have made it clear that the "should" was interpreted by some regiments as a request: the get-out was presumably not to acknowledge the problem, which certainly existed. Duplication is not the word for it in RWF: in August 1914 there were 6 series in existence, sextuplication if you like. Regular, SR and four TF.

I have always read this ACI as referring to New Army, excluding SR and TF. In this respect, provided a man was numbered from the Regulars' sequence, there still should have been no problem. RWF indeed allocated number blocks as new Service battalions were raised.

And we might add AOs to your must-have list.

[Graham Stewart]

A.C.I.144 was brought into being for all units, infact it was the clashing of numbers between Regulars, Special Reservists and Territorials that caused the problem and not the New Army battalions.

You have to remember that many Regular battalions were still using the old system of numbering from 1-9999, although it had been superseded by Army Order 289/1906 and later AO 198/1913, which increased the numbering from 1-19999. This was because it could take up to twenty years for all of a regiments numbers from 1-9999 to be used and some had only just began renumbering when these two AO's were introduced. So some units went to war in August 1914 still using four figure numbers.

The exceptions are of course the Special Reserve and Territorials, who also had regulations governing regimental numbering, but they didn't adopt AO's 289 & 198 and so continued to number men from 1-9999.

I've managed to find the piece I needed regarding the Special Reserve, which was taken from "Regulations for the Special Reserve 1911(Amended to January 1912)"

Paragraph 654 "Records. Regimental Numbers;-

"A seperate series of regimental numbers will be kept for each unit, and one of these numbers will be given in sequence by the O.C. unit to each Special Reservist. The number of the unit will be inserted above the regimental number assigned to the individual. A regimental number will be assigned to each Special Reservist of the A.S.C. by the Officer i/c A.S.C Records."

I have been involved in WWI research since leaving the forces in 1981, and it's regimental numbering that I find most fascinating. Some people have said to me "our TF Battalions weren't prefixed", yet on finding Attestation Sheets have found prefix numbers written in someone elses hand, obviously added at a later date.

The one big exception to the rule seems to be the Notts & Derby Regt, who for reasons known only to themselves seem to have disgarded S.R. & T.F. numbering and issued numbers directly from their Depot.

Graham.

[Duncan]

Many thanks for all your kind help. So I can conclude that he was posted to the 3rd Reserve (possible he was a Special Reserve man?) then reposted to the 1st or 2nd battalions in France?

Duncan.

[Graham Stewart]

Duncan,

Definately 3rd(Reserve)Bn,Devonshire Regt, posted to a Regular battalion.

Check the Medal Index Card, this will then lead you to the Medal Roll Book containing his Medal Roll Sheet, it may list the cause of his discharge under K.R.'s(Kings Regulations). Since he arrived in France in the January of 1915 he should also appear in the 1914-1915 Star Medal Roll Book.

Unfortunately the Medal Roll Book and the 14/15 Star Book have to be viewed at the National Archive. Might even be worth checking to see if his service papers have survived, either in the burnt or unburnt records.

Graham.

[Muerrisch]

A.C.I.144 was brought into being for all units, infact it was the clashing of numbers between Regulars, Special Reservists and Territorials that caused the problem and not the New Army battalions.

Well, if this is the case, it was not obeyed ..... just look at a medal roll, for example.

You have to remember that many Regular battalions were still using the old system of numbering from 1-9999, although it had been superseded by Army Order 289/1906 and later AO 198/1913, which increased the numbering from 1-19999. This was because it could take up to twenty years for all of a regiments numbers from 1-9999 to be used and some had only just began renumbering when these two AO's were introduced. So some units went to war in August 1914 still using four figure numbers.

To say superceded is pushing things:  all men with numbers below 9999 were unaffected, and many, very many, were serving in 1914.  RWF, for example, only gone past 9999 c.1909.

The exceptions are of course the Special Reserve and Territorials, who also had regulations governing regimental numbering, but they didn't adopt AO's 289 & 198 and so continued to number men from 1-9999.

I know of no regulations governing TF numbers: they were administered by County Associations and there appears to have been little organisation of numbers.  I suspect some of the old VF men even carried their old numbers forward in 1908, much as I know some old Militia men did into the SR.

I've managed to find the piece I needed regarding the Special Reserve, which was taken from "Regulations for the Special Reserve 1911(Amended to January 1912)"

Paragraph 654 "Records. Regimental Numbers;-

"A seperate series of regimental numbers will be kept for each unit, and one of these numbers will be given in sequence by the O.C. unit to each Special Reservist. The number of the unit will be inserted above the regimental number assigned to the individual. A regimental number will be assigned to each Special Reservist of the A.S.C. by the Officer i/c A.S.C Records."

I have been involved in WWI research since leaving the forces in 1981, and it's regimental numbering that I find most fascinating. Some people have said to me "our TF Battalions weren't prefixed", yet on finding Attestation Sheets have found prefix numbers written in someone elses hand, obviously added at a later date.

Me too: I am the "expert" on all RWF numbers from pre-Waterloo, for my sins.  Much remains to be done, however.

The one big exception to the rule seems to be the Notts & Derby Regt, who for reasons known only to themselves seem to have disgarded S.R. & T.F. numbering and issued numbers directly from their Depot.

Graham.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Graham Stewart]

Langley,

WOW in red. Haven't had that since my school days.

Sorry Northumberland Fusilier and Durham Light Infantry Medal Rolls, MIC's and Medals are prefixed. Suggest you go to N.A. MIC Site, just type in Northumberland Fusiliers and then 3/; 4/; 5/ 6/ 7/ and any battalion from 16/ to 32/. The result is quite amazing.

See also "Regulations for Territorial Force(Including Territorial Force Reserve) and the County Associations 1912(Reprinted with Amendments Published in Army Orders to 1st Decemeber 1914". Funny that I actually own a copy.

Section 4- Men;-Recruiting, Enlistment,Transfer and Discharge

Sub-section 5 NUMBERING

Para 146 Numbers - "The N.C.O.'s and men of the Territorial Force will be numbered by units, and each man when posted or transferred to a unit will receive a number in that unit. The series of numbers will run from 1-9999: when the latter number is reached a fresh series will be commenced.

In all documents relating to a man his regimental number will preced his name. This number will not be changed so long as he remains in the unit. If he is

transferred, deserts, is discharged, or or dies, the number will not be given to any other man.

Instructions as to the issue of numbers to men who join the Special Reserve, Category(, are given in Appendix XX."

The other places that I've seen prefixed numbers is the Absent Voters Lists for Northumberland and Durham, but hey who want's to argue I'm only a Lance-Corporal on this site.

Graham.

[Muerrisch]

Thanks for all that .... will digest in 17 days time: off to Austria. Medal roll RWF 14 star, 14-15 bereft of prefixes.

I do green bits as well