noe Posted 9 July , 2003 Share Posted 9 July , 2003 I'm looking to purchase a Lee Enfield rifle, can any one tell me the number and mark if the rifle issued to british soldiers during the great war ? As I wanted a WW1 rifle. Or any other information that would help me before I buy one. I'm not too sure of their valur either, I though around £200. I'm going to the war and peace show next week, hoping to find one there. Many thanks Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 9 July , 2003 Share Posted 9 July , 2003 The most common model was the Mk III or Mk III* (Mk 3 Star.) If you lift up the bolt-handle, you'll see the date of production and the maker's stamp on the band underneath. The MkIII was produced from 1907 to 1944 in Britain and until 1941 in Australia. They were produced in India from 1909 to 1916 and again from 1920 to 1936. They were produced at these factories: Royal Small Arms Factory Enfield Birmingham Small Arms Co London Small Arms Co Ishapore Rifle Factory in India Lithgow in Australia The MkIII* was produced from 1915 to 1919 in Britain, from 1941 to 1953 in Australia and 1936 to 1963 and again from 1970-74 in India. Check the woodwork - there should be a brass disc set into the butt and held with a brass screw, on the bolt-side. This is the unit identification disc. Don't worry if there is no actual disc, as long as you can see the hole for it. You'll pick one up cheaply enough. If there's no disc or hole on a WW1-dated rifle, then someone may have fitted a WW2 butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 9 July , 2003 Share Posted 9 July , 2003 Noe, About 3 weeks ago at the Aldershot Militaria Fair a Lee Enfield MkIII dated 1917 was tagged £325. With a bit of haggling the price could have dropped to £250 - £275. Hope this helps. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 9 July , 2003 Share Posted 9 July , 2003 About 3 weeks ago at the Aldershot Militaria Fair a Lee Enfield MkIII dated 1917 was tagged £325. With a bit of haggling the price could have dropped to £250 - £275. Blimey I bought a Mk III* (dated 1916) for £130 (with bayonet & clip of inert ammo) at the International Arms Fair (at Birmingham) about 4 years ago. Prices sure do go up, don't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 9 July , 2003 Share Posted 9 July , 2003 Well Lee one can say that's the South of England for you or, what is more likely the case, a lack of virgin artefacts coming onto the market. I purchased a Mk III dated 1916 at the end of 2001 for £185 and that was in London where I expected a premium. Hopefully at a large show like War & Peace there will be some competitively priced items for Noe to pick from. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 9 July , 2003 Share Posted 9 July , 2003 Hopefully at a large show like War & Peace there will be some competitively priced items for Noe to pick from. Agree with you there mate. I think Mark has to bide his time and have a good look around first and not grab the first one he sees. There are loads of ex-Indian Army SMLEs, all with Indian markings, knocking around at Arms Fairs etc, some of them are fairly cheap compared to 'British' marked versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 9 July , 2003 Share Posted 9 July , 2003 Lee, Agree with you mate. This is the fault of the internet and breeding a 'must have it now' culture. As you say there are still enough SMLE's around to treat them like London buses - don't matter if you miss one now there will be another 2 along shortly. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noe Posted 9 July , 2003 Author Share Posted 9 July , 2003 Thank you for all this info, I now know a little bit to sort of check them out. Ill let you know what I find. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noe Posted 10 July , 2003 Author Share Posted 10 July , 2003 Also one other thing, whats the difference between a deactivated rifle and a blank firing one ? Also do I have to hold a fire arm licence for a blank firing rifle ? Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 10 July , 2003 Share Posted 10 July , 2003 Don't know what they do to the SMLE to make it blank-firing, Noe, but here's what's been done to my deactivated one. Maybe you'll be able to compare this with blank-firing specification. The firing-pin is removed and the end of the bolt is ground to an angle. This makes the rifle incapable of firing a round. The chamber is drilled across its width and a short piece of bar is inserted into the hole and welded in place, blocking the chamber. This makes it impossible to load a round. Then the barrel is renendered useless by milling a slot into the underside, from the chamber to just short of the end of the barrel. A steel rod is inserted into the barrel and welded into place through the slot, almost completely filling the bore. Of course, all this is hiden by the woodwork when the rifle is reassembled. None of these modifications is immediately visible, but if you look down the end of the barrel you can see the end of the steel bar about 1.5 inches in, and if you draw back the bolt and try to look through the barrel from that end, you can just see the start of the slot and the crosswise bar which blocks the chamber. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 10 July , 2003 Share Posted 10 July , 2003 You don't need to have a firearms licence for a blank-firer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 10 July , 2003 Share Posted 10 July , 2003 Lee, Do you know what calibre ammunition they use in blank-firers? Do they reduce the bore and make other modifications so that they can use smaller calibres than the original .303? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Parker Posted 10 July , 2003 Share Posted 10 July , 2003 Mark De-act means the weapon can no longer be fired. The barrel is cut along the bottom for almost its entire length (not visible under the furniture), a pin is normally welded across the barrel opening to the breach and the bolt and firing pin are cut back at angle. If it is a good de-act this do not spoil the overall appearance of the weapon, until you start stripping it down. When you say blank firer I assume you mean an imitation gun in which case I've never heard of a copy of an SMLE being made. Obvously any real SMLE capable of being fired will require a certificate. Before you rush off and buy an SMLE it is well worth doing a bit of research on the SMLE otherwise you may end up with a run of the mill type rifle, and I get the impression you were looking for something a little special. I would suggest you purchase Ian Skennertons booklet on the SMLE which is in his small arms series. It sells for about £5.00 and has a wealth of information (If you going to Beltring get our Jeremy Tenniswood, he will have a copy. He normally has a tent at the far end of the stalls from the entrance). Alternatively go the whole hog and buy Skennertons book "Enfield" which covers all the bolt action Enfield rifles. If you wish I can let you have the names some reliable dealers who may have WWI SMLE's for sale. Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 10 July , 2003 Share Posted 10 July , 2003 Do you know what calibre ammunition they use in blank-firers? Do they reduce the bore and make other modifications so that they can use smaller calibres than the original .303? Tom - The only blank-firers I've seen have been pistols, these used 8mm blanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John W Posted 10 July , 2003 Share Posted 10 July , 2003 You don't need to have a firearms licence for a blank-firer. Sorry but this is not strictly true. Blank firers come in a number of guises. 1) the brand new repro blanc firer, currently you don't need a licence for this but this will change shortly if it dosen't become a prohibited weapon. 2) the bog standard rifle from which you fire blanks. Sorry you need a firearms licence for this which would require a good reason for having it. It look pretty on the wall won't do 3) finally a large number of old ww1/2 rifles are rebored to make them shotguns, although they still fire a standard blank round. For this you need a shotgun licence, security for the weapon and once again a reason for having it. On the subject of deacts, make shure you get the certificate with it, also due to a recent change in the law there are 2 types of deacts, one where the mechanisam(?) is wrecked and the barrel I think is wealded up this is the newer type, for the older type ie one which were deactivated before a certain datte the mechanism still functions. JOhn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noe Posted 10 July , 2003 Author Share Posted 10 July , 2003 I'm learning more and more each day ! The reason I asked about the blank fire's is when Ive been to the war and peace show before Ive watched the re-inactment shows, the guys there have WW1/2 weapons which go 'Bang'. When I asked one of the guys about his gun he was using for the show(last year), he said he was firing blanks, I never questioned him any further. It seems to me now, that in order to fire blanks the gun must be able to fire normal ? It was just now that I raised the question to my self as I'm hoping to find a deactivated SMLE and wanted to know all my options. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 10 July , 2003 Share Posted 10 July , 2003 You don't need to have a firearms licence for a blank-firer. Sorry but this is not strictly true. Blank firers come in a number of guises. John - I was refering to just the bog standard blank-firing weapons that are incapable of firing anything else. But you got me thinking as to the laws, so I contacted Mike Lobb, the Firearm Licensing Manager of Thames Valley Police for an answer (which is an open answer for all to see); here is the reply: Mr Bradbury, Thank you for your enquiry. In response to your question regarding the law in relation to blank firing weapons; if they capable of firing blanks only (usually the barrel is blocked and the chamber vented) then they are not subject to licensing nor to a minimum age. However, if they are capable of being converted to firing a live round then normal certificate procedures apply and the minimum age to purchase a firearm is 17. I thought the legal age was 18, but there you go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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