Soldiers records

[Aaron Nelson]

Hi Pals.

Ive recently discovered I have a Great Grandfather on my mothers side who served in the British forces (we think the Royal Marines) . At some stage during his service he was stationed at Gibraltar. This would have been in the late 1880s to 1890s. My question is have these records been destroyed in 1940 along with all the World war one records, or were they stored ina different place. If so, where are they stored and where can I start to build a profile on this ancestor of mine and his military service to the crown. I know this isnt World War one, but any help would be appreciated.

Many thanks Aaron.

[bernardmcilwaine]

hiya aaron,i thought they were at the n/a,bernard

[Guest]

From the MoD's veterans Agency website:

What about records in the public domain?

The following personnel Service records have been transferred to the National Archive (formerly the Public Record Office) and are available for public access.

Royal Navy Officers who enlisted prior to 1914

Royal Navy Ratings who enlisted prior to 1924 and First World War records for Women's Royal Naval Service

Royal Marine Officers and Other Ranks who enlisted before 1926

Army Officers and Other Ranks that enlisted prior to 1920

Royal Air Force Officers that served prior to 1922

Royal Air Force Airmen that served prior to 1924

Link:

http://www.veteransagency.mod.uk/service_r...ervice_recs.htm

Therefore, if his records exist they should be at the NA.

Why this odd collection of applicable dates? You would think they could introduce a common date to all services and branches.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

There is an index to Royal Marines names and service numbers in ADM 313 at Kew; you could also check the WWI medal rolls in ADM 171, in case he was recalled. The NA holds some of the attestation papers (depends on discharge date) for that period and, as far as I know, all the service registers. The Royal Marine were administered by the navy, so their record weren’t burnt.

[Aaron Nelson]

Thanks all to your replies so far.

have come across some more information. I have come across a photo of him in his uniform, so will post that and see if anyone can give me any clues. It looks like its army to me, not marines.

He was stationed at Gibraltar in mid 1896, thats where the photo was taken. Am I able to find out his regiment/battalion by either the photo, or is there a record of what British army regiments were stationed at Gibraltar in middle of 1896.

Also it appears he purchased his discharge around August/September of 1896. This is when he got married and his new wife wanted him out of the army.

I will post the photo shortly, if anyone can give me any clues as to his regiment that would be fantastic.

Best regards

Aaron.

[Aaron Nelson]

Here is the picture, sorry for the quality, best I could do.

It appears to me as if the uniform could be red in colour (although a pure guess as the photo is black and white). With white collar, cant make out the shape of the collar badges. His shoulder lapels look like they have a horse shoe shape emblem on them, or perhaps it is an anchor emblem?? Any assistance the pals can offer would be great, as I said this photo was taken in 1896 in Gibraltar. Looking to find out what his regiment/battalion might have been.

Thanks again for any assistance offered.

Best regards Aaron.

[SPotter]

Apologies for jumping in on this thread but my question is directly relevant to that asked by the original poster.

Can someone explain the story behind the Service Papers in WO 97.

1) Initially created by the War Office, were they passed onto another Dept after a soldier completed his 12 years service, and if so, for what purpose?

2) What was the rationale behind keeping them, i.e. why do we not find records to men who died in service (from whatever cause).

3) Apart from those died in service why is it that a seemingly significant number of other records are missing? [it is appreciated that anyone whose service extended to or resumed during WW1 would 'normally' have had their previous records kept with their new documents (I know of several exceptions to this) and thus may have been part of the 2/3rds lost to enemy action]. However I know of soldiers whose age or disablement on discharge would certainly have precluded WW1 service yet no trace of their records can be found.

Any help would be most gratefully received.

Steve

[Graham Stewart]

Aaron,

I'm a new boy to this site, but noticed your plea for help regarding your great grandfather. Having looked at the photo that you posted of your grandfather I can tell you he did not serve in a "Royal" regiment because the facing colour of his tunic is white which was introduced in 1881 for English and Welsh regiments. Units which were designated as "Royal" regiments had blue facings, Scottish regiments had yellow facings, Irish regiments wore green.

The curved white item on both shoulder straps is infact the regimetal title woven in white worsted and as far as I'm aware only two regiments had shoulder titles in such a huge curve, one being the Worcestershire Regiment and the other the Northamptonshire Regiment. There are no woven bugles or flaming grenades so he was obviously in a line regiment, rather than Fusiliers or Light Infantry.

Now his collar badge is unclear to me, but it doesn't appear to be the Worcesters, star shpe, but it is possible it could be a Northants collar badge, although the clarity doesn't make this a certainty.

As for his service records, I believe only those 'discharged to pension' survive, but quite a few of Regimental Muster Roll Books survive which pre-date the Great War. The problem is you have to identify the unit correctly before you chase these up, and I'm afraid I've only narrowed it down for you.

Anyway lets hope someone may have conclusive proof as to what he served in, or even agree with me that we're on the right track.

Best of luck,

Graham.

[Aaron Nelson]

Graham,

Thanks so much for your info, it is most hepful. It appears that Worcesters seem to be most likely. I am going to get in contact with the person who has the original photograph and see if I can get a clearer picture. Im checking history sites of the Worchesters to see if I can glean any info from them at all.

Best regards Aaron.

and thank you so much fr your info.

[Aaron Nelson]

Graham,

Here is a close up of the collar badge. Best I could do given the quality of the photo. It appears to me to have points to it rather than circular which may hint at a star shape, what do you think?

regards Aaron.

[Graham Stewart]

Aaron,

Sorry, just cant' make head nor tail of that collar badge. If you bear with me I'll e.mail you a couple of scans regarding the Worcester & Northants collar badges tomorrow. As I'm relatively new here I not sure how to send them via the GWF site, so if you send me your e.mail address I'll send them direct.

One of the best tools for looking at images like this is a X10 magnifying 'Stamp Guage'. Do you know any stamp collectors?

Would be nice if we could identify it, then you could start chasing the Muster Rolls.

All the best,

Graham.