paul guthrie Posted 7 July , 2003 Share Posted 7 July , 2003 Am reading excellent Amiens Dawn Of Victory 2001. In paperback. This tank had 6 feet added for better trench crossing but also allowed it to act as APC. It carried two three man Lewis gun crews , a five man Vickers crew, an officer and a scout in addition to crew! This is more I think than a Bradley carries today. They put this bunch in front of attacking troops. Also mentions the .53 calibre 36 pound anti tank rifle we have seen in museums, was not available until August. Could penetrate tank at a distance. Men did not like to fire it, had a bit of a kick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 8 July , 2003 Share Posted 8 July , 2003 Paul, Many thanks for raising this topic, as you have answered a couple of questions I had previously brought up (under 'Lewis or Vickers?') back in April, ie. How much bigger was the Star and How many extra men did it carry? Monash mentions planning to use 36 of these tanks to carry Lewis-gun teams (two per tank) through phases A (3000 yds) and B (4500 yds) of the battle, so that at phase C (the final 1500 yds 'exploitation') they would "compensate for the somewhat attenuated line of probably tired Infantry." However back in the April thread it was suggested that the 'Star' did not live up to expectations as an APC, as the infantry were unable to function properly after their time spent riding in the tank. Does your author comment on this aspect at all? Regards Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 8 July , 2003 Share Posted 8 July , 2003 This is new to me i have never heard of this tank. Does anyone have a pic of one to let me see how it looked. Either i have been asleep or something but i have never seen any reference to one,even i think the times i have been to Bovington!!! Learn something every day. Arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 8 July , 2003 Author Share Posted 8 July , 2003 Michael the tank was six feet longer. He does mention fumes sickened the crew so it would have done same to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 9 July , 2003 Share Posted 9 July , 2003 Many thanks for the extra info Paul Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn_Hammond Posted 10 July , 2003 Share Posted 10 July , 2003 Michael will probably recall I contributed to the April thread on the Mark V Star and mentioned about machine gun squads the tank was supposed to be carrying being incapacitated by the fumes from the engines. The Mark V Star was (obviously )a variant of the Mark V Heavy tank introduced in July 1918. The Mark V's great advantage over earlier Marks was it's ability to be driven by one man, making it capable of responding more rapidly to the commander's orders. It's biggest disadvantage was I would say the manner in which the radiators drew their air from outside the tank and not from within! This is, you can imagine, a major drawback. The Mark V Star was longer and most of them had wider tracks - but no bigger engines. Which means they were seriously underpowered - a fact I haven't previously referred to. Both had Ricardo 6-cylinder 150bhp engines. There was a Mark V** (Double Star) with a 225bhp engine, but those made never saw action before the war ended. There is an excellent HMSO publication (now out of print) called Landships: British Tanks in the First World War by (you guessed it) David Fletcher of the Tank Museum. It has scale drawings and photos and comparative tables for all the early British tanks. There are slim 1984 and 1992 editions but if you see it, buy it! Paul, I suspect the Bradley was in EVERY way superior to the Mark V Star - how does a 6-pdr QF Hotchkiss compare with the Bradley's main armament? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 10 July , 2003 Share Posted 10 July , 2003 Arm - there is one of these beasties in Bovington. At least it was there last time I went, nearly 2 years ago. Here is a pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 10 July , 2003 Share Posted 10 July , 2003 and again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 10 July , 2003 Share Posted 10 July , 2003 As you can see, not much different externally, just a bit longer. The engine is here on the left, with the sponson holding the guns on the right. The drivers sat in the bay in the distance. The passengers would have been behind the engine and camera position. (A stretch limo I think not - going on exercise in an FV432 in the laet 80s wasnt much more comfortable, and every bit as cramped, tho at least we didnt get the engine fumes.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 10 July , 2003 Share Posted 10 July , 2003 close up of the drivers position - much the same as any other Mark V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 10 July , 2003 Share Posted 10 July , 2003 and the descriptive board with pics of it being used as an engineer tank. Hope you can read it - sorry about the lousy pic quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 11 July , 2003 Share Posted 11 July , 2003 thanks charles i dont recall seeing the star but maybe i was not paying attention to the discriptive boards i am usually only given a certain ammount of time to look round by her in doors as the place drives her potty!! thanks again. Arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn_Hammond Posted 11 July , 2003 Share Posted 11 July , 2003 A stretch limo I think not - going on exercise in an FV432 in the laet 80s wasnt much more comfortable, and every bit as cramped, tho at least we didnt get the engine fumes. Ever been in a stretch limo with a couple of Lewis Gun squads, Charles...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 11 July , 2003 Share Posted 11 July , 2003 Bryn & Charles, Very many thanks for all the extra details and pictures One has to feel for the infantry carried by one of these things They may have been saved the cross-country walk, but this suggests that they were then tipped out to face the enemy, half deaf and suffering from carbon monoxide poisoning (disorientated, nauseous and with streaming eyes) It can't have been much fun! Thanks again Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 14 July , 2003 Author Share Posted 14 July , 2003 Michael about through with this very good book. The Mark V star was a failure. As you mention it did make the passengers sick, some so sick they took anti gas pills; also had same engine as Mark V and was quite underpowered and was a hell of a target. Mark V did very well in this battle, lots of German tank panic. Whippet did not do well because they were ordered to co-operate with cavalry which did not do well , has lost a lot of will according to authors as well as unsuitable in the war period. I have assumed the graves of these men I have seen near Amiens were probably not really serving as cavalry, well now I know they were, saw lots of action. August 8 the British Divisions did not compare to Canadian, Australian or even French who gained 5 miles to 8 for C & A, 2 for UK. If the British Army did still have divisions as good as the Dominion ones they were not there that day. One of the Oz ones was at least as under strength as the UK ones. The book has a good account of French Canadian Lt Jean Brillant VC whose grave at Villers Bretenaux stone all in French. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenwoodman Posted 14 July , 2003 Share Posted 14 July , 2003 You mean like this, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 14 July , 2003 Share Posted 14 July , 2003 Thanks again Paul, I have noted the book's title and added it to my 'wanted' list regards Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 14 July , 2003 Author Share Posted 14 July , 2003 I am amazed how organized some people are, to find that photo would take me forever and then I would have to find out how to post it, thanks greenwoodman, hope to see you again some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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