1RWF December 1914

[Jacksg]

Can anyone pinpoint the location and movements of the 1st Bn RWF in the days leading up to 19th December 1914? My great-uncle was KIA that day and is buried in Sailly-sur-la-Lys churchyard. I'll shortly be visiting the area and would love to be able to locate the line they occupied the week before Christmas.

Many thanks!

[stiletto_33853]

1st RWF December 1914

Relieved (4th) and to billets at Rue Biache. Returned to trenches (8th). Relived by 1/8th Royal Scots (14th) and to Rue de Bataille. Moved forward to reserve positions for attack on enemy line near Bas Maisnil (18th). "C" and "D" Companies sent up in support about 5.15pm, followed later by "B" Company. Returned to billets 6.30am (19th). Casualties - Second Lieutenant G.R Gore mortally wounded, 1 other rank killed, 17 wounded, 3 missing. Relieved 1/8th Royal Scots (20th). Relieved (24th) and to Rue de Bataille. Casualties - 2 killed, 6 wounded. Relieved 1/8th Royal Scots (28th).

Andy

[Ken Lees]

From Ray Westlake's "British Battalions in France & Belgium 1914":

[Ken Lees]

I'm just not quick enough in the mornings

More caffeine required

Ken

[stiletto_33853]

Sorry Ken,

Bloody dog next door got me up early hence already caffeined out

Andy

[brindlerp]

Check out my post:

A MID-WINTER ATTACK, 7th Division

Extracted from pages 118 to 126, Chapter V, The Seventh Division 1914 - 1918 by C.T. Atkinson

with maps

 

regards

Richard

[Jacksg]

Wish I'd joined this forum ages ago!

It looks like Pte 4564 John (Jack) Jackson 1RWF was the "1 other rank" referred to. The story passed down the family is that he was shot by a sniper while bringing up water to the line, but of course we can't know for sure. Must have been a good shot to get him by 6.30 on a midwinter morning?

Thanks all, for your very swift help...more questions about how he ended up there later!

Interestingly, the CWGC site says 2nd Lt Gore was only gazetted 12 days before his death, aged 21.

[dycer]

Jacksq,

My Uncle(582 Pte. J. Souness 1/8 Royal Scots) is also buried in the Churchyard(Grave No A1 although he died in January 1915).

I cannot determine from your posts whether you have ever visited the Churchyard before but just in case you have not.

The Church is tucked away from the centre of the Village,assuming you approach from Estaires,you turn left in the centre(set of traffic-lights?) and you'll see the Church on the right-hand side.There is parking in the front of the Church and the CWGC plot is just beyond the Church on the right hand side(it is surrounded by a hedge).We've visited twice and on the first occasion the Church was not open but it is worth a nosey around if it is open.My Uncle died of wounds so I assume the Church was a dressing station during the early part of the War.Due to the size of the CWGC plot there is no visitors book but it is well looked after.

To the right of the Church is a Restaraunt.We've eaten there a couple of times(a few years ago now), standard was vey good.Probably better to have a mid-week lunch as at weekends it is more family orientated and service is a bit slower..However,it is clearly well patronised by the local people which is a mark of its quality.

George

[Jacksg]

It's a small world, George. My great uncle was a Bollington lad, who by all accounts was a bit of a hard case. Eventually, so the story goes, a magistrate gave him the choice of jail - or enlistment. He joined the RWF, although I don't yet know when. I also wonder whether he was a survivor of the 30th October 1914 action near Ypres that left only 86 men alive and uncaptured from his battalion, or whether he was sent up as a replacement afterwards.

Yes, I've been to the graveyard several times, and must have seen your Uncle's grave. No-one from the family had ever been...or even knew where it was, I should think... until I took my Dad around six years ago. Wonderful thing, the internet! Do you have any information as to why soldiers were buried in the civilian cemetery? There are very few, as you say. I'll have to drop into the restaurant next time I'm there!

Best regards

Gerry

[brindlerp]

Gerry,

Campaign medals from World War One (free search, charged download) :

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/militar...k=main_military

The Medal Index Card gives the date the 1914 Star Clasp is awarded, if appropriate, should give you a better idea of when your great-uncle was first 'under fire'.

See also http://www.iwm.org.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.1229

Attached: 7th Division Ypres Casualties.

regards

Richard

[dycer]

Gerry,

I can understand why he was a "hard man" coming from Bollington if you see the weather today.Cold and drizzle.

Like you, I was the first of the Family to visit in 1999.(other than possibly my Uncle's Brother).It was day trip whilst staying in Rheims so we happened to arrive mid-morning when the Restaurant was open for lunches hence the obligatory egg and chips.The second time we called was on our way back to Calais to catch a Saturday afternoon sailing.

My Uncles were pre-War Territorials and landed in France on 5th November 1914 and joined the 7th Division on the 11th November.

I can only assume that the Church or surrounding buildings were used a dressing station.The "Family" story of my Uncle's wounding is similar to yours.He was in the Front line, woke up,stretched, exposed his head over the parapet and was sniped.He did not die immediately but died during the operation to remove the bullet.The Newspaper report of John's death records that his Brother(George) was the first to reach him when he was shot so I assume he would have visited the Grave whilst on rest.

As regards the graves being undisturbed I can only put this down to the generosity of the Church Authorities.I have a photograph of My Uncle's Grave taken during the War(unfortunately it does not include your Grt-Uncles row) and where the Hedge now is, are other military graves.I intially thought these may be French casualties looking at the surnames but they may also be German.It would appear that the Church Authorities were content to allow the British casualties to remain undisturbed but have the others removed.Terry Denham(Forum Member) has a wealth of experience about the history of the CWGC and the creation of Cemeteries.Should Terry read this thread he may be able to offer some further advice as to why the graves were not moved but I am content to believe it was the kindness of the Villagers,hence my "plug" for the Restaurant as it is nice to be able to repay their generosity.

Unfortunately I cannot post the War time photo of the Cemetery plot but e-mail me and I'll gladly get it copied and forward it to you.Unless,of course,you still live in the Bollington area and we meet up in the"Wagon and Horses" or similar so you can see the original

George