shoulder titles

[Muerrisch]

Uniform is not my area, so please, you experts, comment on my belief that metal shoulder titles were the norm for line infantry on the Western Front throughout the war. This query triggered by sight in a photograph of what may be a cloth one-piece grenade over RWF on a tunic shoulder strap.

If such were worn, can anyone give me chapter and verse? When, by whom, on which orders of dress [and of course, ACI etc if known].

Or are my ageing eyes deceiving me?

And I am officially deaf and have lost my sense of smell, so I do need a lot of help these days ......

Don't all laugh at once.

[Joe Sweeney]

Officially, in 1916 they were replaced by cloth slip on titles for all Corps and Regiments of the Army save I think Guards for Service Dress and Khaki Drill. Did not affect any other order of Dress such as No. 1 as No.1 Dress did not really exist any more after Aug 1914 by Special Army Order. These titles were declared obsolete in 1919 and the medal titles were returned.

However, metal titles were the norm through-out the war. The cloth slip ons never seemed to have caught on.

Metal titles, roughly speaking went through a few changes during the war. In early 1916, or late 1915, quite a few regimental titles were simplified, ex. Royal Berks became R Berks. In addition 1916 saw the abolishion of the distinctive TF titles. TF were to wear the regular regiments titles--London Reg't etc being exempted.

The Cloth titles were brought in as a metal saving measure. Never really found favour and metal titles still remained most commonly seen.

If your looking for any particular unit I can help as I have the RACD approval dates and obscolescence dates for all. It amounts to reams of paper. I do not have the ACI or AO which instituted the changes.

Joe Sweeney

[Muerrisch]

Marvellous, thank you Joe Sweeney. Please, to help solve

dispute that might just become heated, is anything known re. RWF cloth slip-on substitutes please?

I imagine that the usual formula would have been used for introduction " ...... not to be issued until existing stocks etc run out ......."

[CROONAERT]

However, metal titles were the norm through-out the war. The cloth slip ons never seemed to have caught on.

...though they did make a brief return on the battledress of 1939/40, prior to the adoption of the coloured "crescent" shaped cloth shoulder titles (which incidentally could be found on Guards SD tunics 26 years previous!).

Dave.

[Joe Sweeney]

The pattern for the RWF (8973/1916) was sealed on 22 June 1916. This was listed as an introduction (that is intended to replace). I also have a ACD authority code that is meaningless to me at the moment.

The Slip-on was on drab melton wool with RWF and a Grenade.

Every single separate unit title had its own sealed pattern number, which I just saw included guards. Although Guards are a special case as they used metal titles and commonly pre-1908 embrodiered colored crescent titles as Dave mentions. Numbers of units went against regulation so a variance is encountered.

This one, along with all other slip -ons, were declared obsolete on 7 October 1919 with the instructions that metal titles would be reverted to.

All the above comes out of WO 359/16

A GRO (2137)from 27 Feb 1917 mentions the issue of these titles in France and gives odd instructions. That is instead of wearing them on the shoulder strap they should be sewn to the shoulder. Only unit I've ever seen do this in photos was the Training Reserve. This comes out of SS340.

Hope this helps,

Joe

[Muerrisch]

Thank you so much. I fear I must do a bit of grovelling, but that's my problem. The knowledge available on this site is astounding.

[AndrewThornton]

Just to clarify a few points with the excellent information provided by Joe and CROONAERT.

The cloth shoulder titles used from 1916 had white lettering & devices. Those issued with Battledress in 1939/40 had black/dark brown lettering only - no devices such as grenades or buglehorns wore embroidered onto the titles.

You can occassionally see the cloth title sewn onto the upper arm (instead on being worn on the shoulder) in photos held by the Imperial War Museum, but it certainly was not a common practice. The most well-known photo I can remember is that of members of 15th (Scottish) Division's concert party taken in 1917. One of the Privates of the KOSB featured wears the shoulder title on his upper arms.

The regiments of Foot Guards did not universally wear the coloured arc titles until the Second World War. In 1914, only the Grenadier Guards wore these titles, and then the Scots, Irish and Welsh Guards adopted them in early 1917, worn in combination with battalion indicators with the unit's number in roman numerals, except 2nd Bn Grenadier Guards who wore a white "2" on a red square beneath their title. The Coldstream Guards wore the battalion indicators only.

There is also a well-known photo of men of the Irish Guards (wearing PH Smoke Helmets) taken sometime in 1916 that shows cloth slip-on titles, some men wearing them on both their shoulder straps and others having them sewn on to the upper arms of their tunics.

[Jim Gordon]

There must have been variations to the foregoing. I have photos of my father in France and he is wearing "battle insignia" cloth strips. The Brigade is identified by the colour of the strip and the battalion seniority in that Brigade by the number of strips worn. In all cases the regiment is not named. However on photos taken on being posted as an Istructor after wounding and based at Home in 1918 a return is made to the metal Regimental Insignia.

jim Gordon

[Stuart Brown]

The one in the below image is a slide on type measuring 2.5 x 1.5 inches and is probably the correct colour ie not faded. I acquired it with the medals to a casualty of the 6th Btn, Leicester Regt who died in December 1915. Whether or not it is from the Great War period I do not know.

[Muerrisch]

Thank you Stuart, fascinating. Its the final S in the title that is intriguing, this is not the regiment's correct title, which variously appears with or without Royal, or R, and either as Leicester or Leicestershire, according to the guru, Ray Westlake. Any Leicester experts to comment, please? Perhaps the slip-on was demi-official? Of course, if the owner died before slip-ons were authorised ....... heh heh, there's a thought. The colour makes me think khaki drill.

[Staffsyeoman]

The Leicesters didn't become the Royal Leicesters until after WW2 - 1946, I think. I have a metal title 'Leicestershire', which I been told was the WW1 standard issue.

[Muerrisch]

Yes, of course, should have read Westlake properly, but fact remains the final 'S' is weird.