I am going mad please help me!

[armourersergeant]

For what seems like an eternity i seem to have been searching for an answer to a question and it is driving me to the point of distraction and mental disorder.

Generals Forestier-Walker and John Gough VC had a mutual dislike of each other and i am interested ,sorry obsessed to know why. I know have some courses open to me.

1...track down Dr Ian Beckett who i have seen the quote used by.

2...Buy his book on John Gough where he uses the quote (p181) and hopefully explains the reason.

3...Go insane

4...wait until i can go to the Pro again and look up the Doc that he quotes from Cab 103/113 Acheson to Edmonds 27/7/1950.

The original quote was from a conversation by Edmonds to Liddel-Hart in 1937 and knowing my luck it never states the reason why!

Alternatively if any good Pal has a copy of the book or access to one could he check page 181 of Johnnie Gough VC by Dr Ian Beckett as i have know real wish to order from a shop the book just for one page that may or may not say what happened

Yours in desperation

Arm.

[ianw]

Arm,

John Hussey writing in an essay "Fortesque, Edmonds and the Great War" comments that J Gough and F.W were senior Staff officers of I Corps and II Corps respectively in Aug. 1914 and that they were called to GHQ simultaneously to receive instructions to prepare for the Retreat from Mons. J.H says that Gough was more efficient in preparing his instructions "and this and the chances of war led to I Corps moving before II Corps" He also states that " the strong antipathy J Gough evinced for F.W made all contact impossible" . This is surely a fairly disastrous situation .

So perhaps F.W's poor staff work left him" holding the baby " for II Corps having to do the lion's share of the work during the retreat.

I presume that their spat pre-dates this particular event but can't have been much helped by it !

[armourersergeant]

thanks ian

I have heard this info but relayed in a different way. if this is the same instance, I had heard that after the briefing Gough was able to phone back his info to Haig abut that F-W had to drive back to HQ with his. I had assumed that this implied that Smith-Dorrien was not accessable by phone. But this may be a more correct assumption.

thanks for the info

Arm.

[ianw]

Yes, Arm , it certainly could be as easy an explanation as that but , people choose to edit out inconvenient facts , and F-W could still have suffered in comparison with Gough when eventual times of movement of the Corps were compared.

Interesting that Hussey suggests that it was Gough that didn't like F-W.

I also think that a charismatic chap with a V.C ribbon on his chest is almost beyond criticism , no matter what he does !

[armourersergeant]

i have had it suggested that the spat between them was due to VC envy. Though i dont quiet buy this idea. It appears to stem from a conversation between Edmonds and Liddel Hart sometime in the 30's.

Smith-Dorrien thought highly of F-W but then he needed all the friends he could get so isolating your BGGS would not be a good idea!

I have ordered the book yesterday on Johnnie Gough by beckett this explains i believe the spat so i'll see what it says, though it is bound to be as clear as mud. At the very least it may explain exactly how Gough earnt his VC. Three officers rescuing another officer does seem a little excessive especially as Gough was the column commander. His duty was to the men under him. It maybe that F-W told him this, but this is just speculation on my part. I shall probably never know.

Arm.