Promoted

[KILTY]

My first post and no replies; never mind I'll try again.

If a soldier was promoted to say sgt with a battalion, would that promotion still stand if he was transferred to another battalion in the same regiment.

[Andrew Hesketh]

Sorry you didn't get a response.

I would imagine so, unless the transfer was the result of some misdemeanour and he'd been 'busted' as well.

All the best,

Andrew

[Guest Hussar]

I would imagine it would also depend on wether his promotion was substansive or if he was just 'local acting'.

[Muerrisch]

A substantive sergeant would most certainly retain rank, and indeed seniority in that rank within his own regiment, on posting to another battalion of his regiment. In peace time, much attention was paid to this aspect, so that the higher ranks of NCO [and indeed WO] were filled in a reasonably fair way within the regiment as a whole. Remember there was a 3rd [and often 4th] Special Reserve battalion to provide permanent staff for, so we are not just talking two RSMs, two RQMSs etc.

[Guest FRANKBARTHOLOMEW]

How exactly does seniority work?

[Muerrisch]

I am sure someone understands it better than I, but that never stopped me before. In particular, my knowledge of what actually happened in war is sketchy.

A battalion had a war establishment of so many in each rank, paid as such, and attempted to keep to these established numbers. Some of these were paid or unpaid lance appointments. To be considered for a sergeant's vacancy, one had to be a corporal under normal circumstances.

It appears the Depot kept a regimental seniority roll, which included NCOs who had gone on to the Reserve. Regimental seniority began to matter among the most senior ranks, so that, whereas a soldier tended to serve with his allotted battalion throughout his career to at least sergeant, some of the more senior soldiers were specifically posted into certain appointments as required.

In Dunn's TWTIK August 1914 "The Establishment of NCOs had to be made up to strength, so the Adjutant convened a board consisting of himself, the RSM, CSMs and CQMSs, and went through the rolls of the Reserve NCOs. One or other of us knew something about each of them and was able to guide Captain Owen in his selection of those to be promoted".

Uniquely among those without commissions, Warrant Officers appeared in the Army List, complete with seniority dates and time in current appointment.

Someone else's turn now.

[gem22]

Frank

Seniority dates from the day you achieve a substantive rank, whether officer or N.C.O.

That way you would know who was in charge if you had two people of the same rank. The date of seniority gives precedence to the person who has held the rank longest.

A well known example of this was shown in the film 'Zulu'. Michael Caine's character, whilst being the senior officer of his regiment present at Rourke' Drift, was junior to the Royal Engineer officer, whose name escapes me.

Hope that helps

Garth

[Guest Hussar]

'Seniority' is time served in a substansive rank. Basically, your seniority date is the date of your official promotion to that rank. I say official because the man concerned may have been in the job for a while but only in a temporary or 'local-acting' capacity and that period would not be taken into account when calculating his 'seniority'.

Whoops, looks like we were typing at the same time Garth!

[Neil Burns]

Hi All,

I know in the past some US Army commissions were sometimes back-dated to alleviate conflict between two officers of the same rank. I'm not sure if this was still common in the First World War though.

It's off topic but if you want to see seniority taken to it's absurd length take a look at both Union & Confederate officers in the US Civil War. Bickering over seniority was a constant problem with someone always upset.

This is my second Civil War reference today, that's my quota I promise no more!!

Neil

[Guest FRANKBARTHOLOMEW]

Thanks everyone,

It's being bugging me for some time.

[Greenwoodman]

Stanley Baker aka Lt Chard

[Yorts]

A well known example of this was shown in the film 'Zulu'. Michael Caine's character, whilst being the senior officer of his regiment present at Rourke' Drift, was junior to the Royal Engineer officer, whose name escapes me.

The question of seniority (despite the film) was never in question at the drift. Brevet-Major Spalding had left the drift on the morning of the 22nd January 1879 and had left Lt. Chard in command. Although the film suggests both men were promoted to Lt. in the same year, the reality was that Chard was some three years senior to Bromhead, despite Bromhead having 18 months more service.

This doesn't reflect badly on Bromhead. Engineers had to take a two year course at the RMA before being commissioned; whilst this was taking place infantry candidates were already ensigns / 2nd Lt. On passing out engineers automatically received the rank of Lieutenant to rectify this, making Chard senior. Both Chard and Bromhead new this, and Spalding's orders sealed the matter.

Now being a Great War forum, I have to do a quick recovery and tie this back in. Whilst awaiting Spaldings orders on the morning of the 22nd Chard had a coversation with a Lt. who had ridden in from the field column and stated that nothing much had happend but that a big fight was expected. This officer, later to rise to prominence in WW1, was Horace Smith-Dorrien.

rgds,

Alex.