Wiltshire Regiment

[mac]

My name is 'Mac' McIntyre and I am a volunteer reasearcher for the RGBW regimental Museum at Salisbury. On behalf of the Museum I am producing photographic histories of the old regiments. I have completed the R/Berks /Regt 1914 to 1959 and I am about to finish the R/Berks 1743 to 1914. I am about to embark on a similar exercise for the Wiltshire Regiment with the first one covering 1914 to 1959. This brings me to my First World War Mystery and that is a photograph that will be familier to most forum members showing the Wiltshire Regiment attacking at Thiepval in 1916. I have been in contact with David Whithorn who wrote 'Bringing Uncle Albert Home' who has already done some investigation into the date and the place. The photo in question is very ofen wrongly used to show the 1st July assault, but David thinks it might be the 1st Battalion on the 24th August 1916 by Ernest Brooks. Using the Regimental archives I am trying to identify people/places and locations, so my request to Forum members is "Has any one out there ever researched that photo and come up with the answer". I am hoping the research has been carried out so it can save me some leg work, also it means I can research the previously unseen photos of the Wilts Regt in the Trenches (Or what passed for trenches) at the end of 1914, but thats another mystery.

Many thanks in anticipation

Cheers

MAC

[adrianjohn]

Mac: Can the Imperial War Museum not help with this? I imagine that you have actually gone down that route - I'm surprised if they haven't got some relevant info. If this photo is part of a sequence, they may have others that 'fit round it'.

adrianjohn

[Malcolm]

Is it not part of the film of the Somme?

Aye

Malcolm

[ypres1418]

malcolm,

i thought that aswell,

mandy

[bernardmcilwaine]

wasnt there some speculation that it was a posed picture,bernard

[Alan_J]

The photo is in the IWM collection as Q1142 - the information given is " THE SOMME OFFENSIVE 1916

Men of the Wiltshire Regiment advancing to the attack through the wire, Thiepval."

It doesn't state it is the 1st July, so it could well be later - August perhaps as suggested.

There is no reason to think this one is a posed picture.

Alan

[ypres1418]

thats what i heard,

if you look at the film a lot of it seems to be staged proberbly for the folks back home,

mandy

[Steven Broomfield]

Isn't it from the bit in the film where one chap falls, lies on his back and then looks at the camera?

[ian turner]

I first thought it was part of the Somme film too , but look at an enlarged image and you can see that the men are carrying packs/equipment. The Somme film was said to be a Salisbury Plain mock-up, and the men in that film carry no equipment. These do.

Ian

[Paul Reed]

Mac - I can't help with specific details of this photo, but some years ago (mid-80s) when I was doing some research on Beaumont Hamel, Mike Willis at the IWM (long since retired, sadly) showed me the notes Lt Brookes wrote for each photo. In some cases they expanded on the 'official' caption, which was useful tying down which ones were actually taken on 1st July. I have no idea how one accesses these records now.

Photos taken by Brookes had no connection with the Malin's film; although on 1st July he was often right alongside Malins during much of the action. This leads to a confusion as to who took what. A good indication of Malins work is the poor quality of the image; photos taken from film stills are usually pretty poor. Brookes was working with glass plate negatives, which like the one shown above, produced high quality high resolution images.

[mac]

To Everyone that responded, many thanks

I have been told that many of the captions on the IWM photos were placed there just after the war in many cases, and this might be one of them. The moving image that most are familier with showing the soldier slipping back is I aggree a reconsruction, and I don't think the photo I am investigating is a follow on from that. I am satisfied as I can be that the photo we are looking at is not posed. I am examining the war diaries in some detail, I am not sure which Battalion it is (I think either 1st or 6th). I am also trawling through the Regimental archives, soldiers diaries etc looking for clues. Just as a point of interest whilst looking through one of the photo albums from the early 1920s I came aacross a number of stills for two films 'The Retreat from Mons' and 'The 1st Battle of Ypres' filmed on Salisbury plain using the 1st Wilts for extras. The photos are few in number and I cannot assertain who is donig the filming, but very interesting as many of the lads who took part in the filming would have had recent battle experience. Anyway I drifrt of as normal.

Once again many thanks, if I turn up the answer I will let you all know.

Cheers

MAC

[wainfleet]

Just found this - it looks as if the picture was taken through a periscope masked with sacking, hence the raggedy edge.

[Guest Raine]

how did u get in contact with david

i recently met him but have now lost contact

would appreciate help finding him

thanks