Died of Wounds 1920

[Guest clifton19]

My Great uncle died of wounds in June 1920 at a Military Hospital in Leeds West Yorkshire,

Would there have been an inquest into his death or would details of his Death just be on his Death Certificate.

Any Help most appreciated

[John_Hartley]

Welcome to the Forum.

It's unlikely that there would have been an inquest - presumably your great uncle would have been poorly for some time and cause of death would be easy to establish. His death certificate will give pretty good details of cause (although it may well not have been the wounds that were the actual cause of death).

John

[Guest clifton19]

Thanks John,

I was not sure if that would be the case, Arthur was wounded sometime around April 1918 so as you suggest his actual cause of Death may not be directly linked to his wounds

[PFF]

Pvt Clark is listed on the CWGC website-thus by implication he must have died of wounds

[John_Hartley]

Pvt Clark is listed on the CWGC website-thus by implication he must have died of wounds

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not necessarily. If he was in hospital still being treated for his wounds but then suffered, say, a heart attack or caught pneumonia, he would be most likely on the CWGC roll. The wounds may have been a contributory factor but not the actual cause of death. The death certificate will confirm.

(And with apologies to Clifton19 for possibly appearing to treat Arthur's death as a "case study")

John

[Max]

Thanks John,

                  I was not sure if that would be the case, Arthur was wounded sometime around April 1918 so as you suggest his actual cause of Death may not be directly linked to his wounds

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't be too sure about that. My ex-father-in-laws uncle (marine?) was badly wounded by shrapnel at belleau wood. He died in 1943, 25 years after the event, when a piece of the shrapnel moved to his lung and caused complications.

Andy

[philary]

Death certificates today give information in a way that records what the person actually died of at the end of the information. The last statement is the actual cause of death.

So for instance: Case of death may be listed as

1 Cancer of the pancreas

2 Secondary cancers

3 Bronchial pnuemonia

4 Heart failure

In other words a doctor would say cancer in isolation does not kill you, but the effect it has on the body, as the cancer develops and takes over does. Bronchial pnuemonia develops and this causes heart failure - the last item recorded being the actual cause of death as a result of the predceding problems.

Does that make sense?

In 1920 this practice was beginning to be developed on death certificates and I would be interested to know if this was so in this particular case. The only way to find out is to obtain a copy of the certicificate! Not too difficult, but will involve some cost.

Hilary

[Guest Photini]

Don't be too sure about that. My ex-father-in-laws uncle (marine?) was badly wounded by shrapnel at belleau wood. He died in 1943, 25 years after the event, when a piece of the shrapnel moved to his lung and caused complications.

Andy

Yes, Andy, that's true -- That was my great uncle, Leslie Evans, one of eight brothers, all U.S. military, at least one in each branch of the service. Got a great sepia photo of 4 of them in uniform -- wish I had a scanner handy!

Quite a long shot I was able to find this online -- as I emailed you, I saw the U.S. Naval Diaries of John (Brown: correction is Buell) Evans online - my grandfather.

Good to meet everyone on the site! Intriguing information here.

[squirrel]

I have one set of papers for a soldier which show that he died of cancer of the throat in 1919 - he died in UK and is buried in West London in a CWGC grave.

[Terry Denham]

Don't get confused by a soldier having a CWGC listing.

Remember that, if the man was still serving, his listing by CWGC is automatic up to and including 31.08.21. It mattered not if he died of wounds, of a heart attack (brough on by wounds or not) or was run over by a bus.

[squirrel]

I also have a relative, an uncle, who was passed as permanently unfit for Naval service in 1940 due to TB and died just over a year later. He is buried in a CWGC grave in another cemetery in West London.

[John84]

Don't get confused by a soldier having a CWGC listing.

Remember that, if the man was still serving, his listing by CWGC is automatic up to and including 31.08.21. It mattered not if he died of wounds, of a heart attack (brough on by wounds or not) or was run over by a bus.

Terry, could you tell me please, how does it apply for a man discharged from the service, wounds etc...i.e. an soldier wounded or sick in 1914, discharged from service, then dies in 1915.

John

[Terry Denham]

John

The rules for war grave status qualification AFTER leaving the services (for any reason) are as follows.

1) The death has to have occurred between the qualifying dates of (WW1) 04.08.14 - 31.08.21 or (WW2) 03.09.39 - 31.12.47 inclusive.

2) The death has to have occurred due to a cause attributable to service during the same qualifying period (ie a man who died of WW1 wounds during WW2 would not count). Therefore, if it is PROVEN that a man died of wounds or illness caused by service or such wounds/illness exacerbated another condition which caused death, he qualifies for war grave status and listing (if accepted by the appropriate authority as such).

This can be a grey area and that is why I have added the last part. Whether a condition caused a death can be very subjective and many relatives ascribed an early death to 'war experiences' when this was either not so or could not be proven to be so. It is the MoD (in the UK - other authorities in the Dominions) that makes the final decision.

So, in brief....

In service = acceptance is automatic

After service = cause needs to be proven and accepted

[Coldstreamer]

Hello

James Budgett of the Coldstream Gds. He was discharged, died May 1917 and is recorded on the CWGC web site but NOT soldiers died (unless my memory has reverted back to a goldfish again!)

Ian

[Terry Denham]

SDGW is a very incomplete record and does not usually list men who died after discharge.

[Coldstreamer]

Hello

He was awarded a SWB so I assumed he was discharged . I suppose he could have re joined but thats not likely at 36yrs and already discharged is it ?

I will check when I get home

Ian

[John84]

Terry Denham said:

John

The rules for war grave status qualification AFTER leaving the services (for any reason) are as follows.

1) The death has to have occurred between the qualifying dates of (WW1) 04.08.14 - 31.08.21 or (WW2) 03.09.39 - 31.12.47 inclusive.

2) The death has to have occurred due to a cause attributable to service during the same qualifying period (ie a man who died of WW1 wounds during WW2 would not count). Therefore, if it is PROVEN that a man died of wounds or illness caused by service or such wounds/illness exacerbated another condition which caused death, he qualifies for war grave status and listing (if accepted by the appropriate authority as such).

This can be a grey area and that is why I have added the last part. Whether a condition caused a death can be very subjective and many relatives ascribed an early death to 'war experiences' when this was either not so or could not be proven to be so. It is the MoD (in the UK - other authorities in the Dominions) that makes the final decision.

So, in brief....

In service = acceptance is automatic

After service = cause needs to be proven and accepted

Terry thanks for that...I wonder if this can be the case for my missing man....please see thread link below....I still cant find him, I know war memorials are a personal thing, I wonder if my man is the one whose death certificate I got...perhaps discharged from service, and on his death certificate shows his occupation he was employed as before joining up or occupation after discharge....its still doing my head in

John.

 

 

[Terry Denham]

John

Could be - or not.

Maybe he died after discharge of unrelated causes - no CWGC listing.

Maybe his death was service related and nobody informed the authorities

Maybe they rejected the submission

Maybe he was a civilian and added to the memorial for unknown reasons

Also have you thought that the Roll of Honour may also include people who did not die? From your quote it says men who 'served' rather than who gave their lives. A number of memorials include both categories of men.

[John84]

Also have you thought that the Roll of Honour may also include people who did not die? From your quote it says men who 'served' rather than who gave their lives. A number of memorials include both categories of men.

Terry, again thanks...perhaps I should have worded it better on the other thread, the school war memorial and the Roll of Honour are not one and the same...Ralph Hunter is listed on the school war memorial as having lost his life in the Great War, this Roll is just for war dead...the other Roll is a Roll of honour scroll, it lists all men that served from our village (name only) by land and sea...this Roll also has the names of the war dead....Ralph Hunter is on both of them.....the school memorial was dedicated March, 1921.

Thanks

John

[Coldstreamer]

Hello

James Budgett was discharged in August 1915, died 1917 and has a CWGC grave

And awarded a SWB in 1918 it would appear (according to MIC) ! I have the medals but no badge

Always exceptions to the rules I suppose

Ian