heavy projectile or dept charge?

[Bert Heyvaert]

Hi all,

I am researching the events in Sanctuary Wood ath the end of september 1915. On the 26th the German 172th INfanterie regiment was the subject of a British attack , after three mines had been fired under their positions. IR 172 lost almost 500 men on that day! However, the British units involved, 4/Middlesex and units of the Gordon Highlanders, did not manage to keep the craters and at the end of the 26th they were in German hands. A few days later the Germans retaliated with an attack on the British positions nearest to the new craters. This were I am a bit puzzled.

German account writes that

'Endlich hinten eine schwacher Abschuß, eine schwere Mine stieg in steilem Bogen hoch. Ehe sie niederfiel, wankte der Boden. Ein dumpfer Knall von ungeheuer Wucht erschütterte die Luft. Im nächsten Augenblick war alles dunkel, Erdbrocken, Steine, hagelten auf die bereittsgestellte Sturmkompagnie...dann wurde es wieder hell.'

On the other hand, the British account writes that the Germans 'had blown a mine' (2/Royal Scots) in their sector.

As you can see on the picture, the crater is quite large, and still looks impressive today. It looks like a crater made by a dept-charge, but apparently the germans fired a single heavy projectile here, that made this huge hole? Is this possible? Is there any way to tell a crater made by a heavy explosive projectile and a crater from a dept charge on the terrain? There is no water in them...

kind regards,

Bert

[CROONAERT]

I have accounts of a mine being blown at 4.30 pm on the 29th September (by the Germans) in this sector (underneath B.4 to be precise) preluding a bombardment and attack "in which some Germans were dressed as Royal Scots" (! ).

Dave.

[Bert Heyvaert]

Yes, this is the B4 crater in the pic.. And yes, the incident with the Germans dressed as Royal Scots is featured in the unit history of IR 172 as well! (it was written in 1949, quite late) They say this is pure nonsense. The whole thing is: The British say it's a mine that has been blown, the Germans who actually blew the thing say it was a heavy projectile shot from a few km behind. That must have been quite something, and VERY accurate. No rehearsel, spot on from the first time...

But I don't know what to think, it just seems hardly impossible, or maybe I am underestimating the ability of the German gunners...

[KONDOA]

Have just looked through War Underground (Barrrie) no mention is made of German mine activity in this area at that time.

Roop

[CROONAERT]

Yes, this is the B4 crater in the pic.. And yes, the incident with the Germans dressed as Royal Scots is featured in the unit history of IR 172 as well! (it was written in 1949, quite late) They say this is pure nonsense. The whole thing is: The British say it's a mine that has been blown, the Germans who actually blew the thing say it was a heavy projectile shot from a few km behind. That must have been quite something, and VERY accurate. No rehearsel, spot on from the first time...

But I don't know what to think, it just seems hardly impossible, or maybe I am underestimating the ability of the German gunners...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, if it wasn't a mine, it was one hell of a projectile of a similar explosive capacity to a large WW2 aerial bomb!!! If the Germans had a weapon of this capability in the vicinity, don't you think it would have been used again?

The fact that the mine doesn't get much mention (my reference, by the way was the Middlesex Regimental history) doesnt really mean anything as there are countless unchartered and unmentioned mines on the Western Front. For example, between Gully Farm and Hill 60, there were over 60 mine detonations between 1915 and 1917. I can only find details on scant few. They became part of every day life in some sectors, not worthy of mention.

Dave. (as you can tell, I firmly believe it was a mine)

[TD60]

Hello,

Is it possible it was a combination of both ?

I mean the projectile reached some ammunitions stored there ?

Regards

[Bert Heyvaert]

I agree with you Dave, if the Germans had a similar weapon there, which they could use so precisely and to such a destructive power, they would have been firing it on and off!!

The hypothesis of a large amount of explosives triggered by a heavy mortar doens't sound so bad... I know nothing about artillery and explosives, again, so could this be done? Bring a mine shaft close or under the enemy lines, fill it with explosives and than detonate the whole thing with one precise blow of a heavy projectile? It doens't sound easy as well...

The regimental history of the IR 172 does mention German mining in the area of Sanctuary wood. I will try to post the relevant pieces of text (it's not a lot) and a map of the area showing the craters, tomorrow.

regards,

Bert