bernardmcilwaine Posted 30 May , 2005 Share Posted 30 May , 2005 has anyone thought about compiling their own war diary,using one of the batts that ime interested in as an EG,the 16th manchesters,ihave the 16ths war diary,i also have a very rare diary called the 16th batt man regt,signal section,its a complete diary of ALL ranks, what, where and when,i also have the bandsmens/SBs diary,supporting this are names,places,dates and happenings of ordinary soldiers,backed up with photos,there is a lot more info besides this,and more to dig out,put all this togethor and THATS a war diary, not a book that tells you the happenings of a batt with only the officers mentioned,OH and a few indications of other ranks who happened to win a gallantry award,and as you know they are few and far between,some diarys prefer to tell you what a officer had for his dinner rather than what a soldier was decorated for and why,if you want a war diary,WRITE your own,its more fun, and its the unit you are interested in anyway,so what have you got to lose,NOTHING,plenty to gain though a proper war diary,compiled by you,bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 30 May , 2005 Share Posted 30 May , 2005 Bernard Just a quickie. When you say you have a 16/Manchester diary - do you mean a copy of the full diary from the National Archives. It's just so I know I which door to come knocking on when I need some info. And I'll do swapsies for info from my 17/Manc. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernardmcilwaine Posted 30 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2005 hiya john,its the equivalent of your 17th batts,you are a prime example of what i am talking about on here,you must have gathered tons of info on the 17th,you have already broke its back with your website,why not slot in the ordinary lads,you must have photos and info on quite a lot of men,ive got a few myself and there must be a lot more,you can have what ive got and i bet harribobs got some up his sleeve,why not go for it john,when you think about it john we havent got anything about the manchesters thats got the everyday blokes mentioned in it,i will start your book off for you with a good name to start with,pte thomas brough,and dont knock on my door,its open come in,bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Nixon Posted 30 May , 2005 Share Posted 30 May , 2005 Bernard I guess time is the enemy for most of us but of course, it could probably be done, after a fashion, with sufficient rcourse to archive mterial such as newspapers, official papers and pleas in current publications to be put in touch with relatives. For an example of what you suggest you have no further to look than this mother site where named casualties sustained by a battalion of the Sherwood Foresters have been added to the diary narrative of the time: http://www.1914-1918.net/Diaries/wardiary-1notts.htm But the information gathering sure is a lengthy business. I guess most of us are trying to juggle our WW1 interests with careers and family life with only a fortunate minority making the Great War a career too. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernardmcilwaine Posted 30 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2005 hiya paul,i have a job and a family and i can understand your point,but what i mean by writing your own,is,you all visit the library quite regular to look up this and that,why not spend a little more time gathering togethor a few more snippets from the archives,theres no hurry to compile it,mine is a personal project which i fit in around my other mancs interests in my own time,i flick through the internet for pics,personal stories etc and file them,even after all this time i still get a buzz when i find another bit of info on a soldier,wether he was killed or not,bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 30 May , 2005 Share Posted 30 May , 2005 when you think about it john we havent got anything about the manchesters thats got the everyday blokes mentioned in it<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually my Hellfire Corner article carries the name of all the Bn's fatalities; gallantry award references where I've been able to find them and previously unpublished first hand accounts from 1/7/16. One day, I may return to 17/Manchester as a prime interest but, for now, Stockport's fallen look likely to occupy me for a few years yet. But when I get round to researching our 16/Manchesters (probably about this time next year), I'll give you a shout. There are 17 of them. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernardmcilwaine Posted 30 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2005 john thats a massive task,theres a lot of blokes on that memorial,good luck,bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Nixon Posted 30 May , 2005 Share Posted 30 May , 2005 Yep, I know what you mean. It's great when you stumble across somebody or, after going half blind through squinting at pages of badly burned documents at the National Archives you suddenly come across one of the men you were looking for. As for me, I really don't have additional time. On my recent return visit to the UK I managed to cram in four full days at the NA and that was how long it took to run through about 150 names on the burnt docs and get the service records of a handful of officers. So that leaves another 150 odd names for me to research plus the WO 364 series to do on my next visit - probably around April 2006. The good news for us all is though that the internet continues to be a fantastic resource with more and more information appearing each day. And that is exactly where my hard won research efforts will end up too. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Godden Posted 30 May , 2005 Share Posted 30 May , 2005 Hi Bernard, I am trying to do somehing similar for the 13th Royal Scots. I have a complete copy of the War Diary, which I am informed is one of the biggest the PRO have, along with a couple of Officers diaries and an ORs diary. My collection of photos is gradually increasing. However, as far as writing a book or compiling any sort of diary it is some considerable way off. I would like to say that my main interest is the Officers of the battalion. Now I know it is easier to find out info about the officers but this does not make their part in the war any less. It is not quiet as blatant as you would make out about having breakfast, it is still useful things, such as illnesses, awards, deaths...etc... I agree it would be nice if you could find the same info on ORs but that does not mean the sacrifice and and work of the officers should be belittled. Anyway, good luck with you project. Cheers, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borden Battery Posted 30 May , 2005 Share Posted 30 May , 2005 The CEF Study Group has produced an MS-Word war diary template which is corrected for the leap-year. There is also a small team working on the transcription of some of the CEF war diaries ... it is 80 percent perspiration and 20 inspiration with the 20 percent being enough to keep you going. Contact me privately if you wish to have a copy of the template. Borden Battery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 30 May , 2005 Share Posted 30 May , 2005 theres a lot of blokes on that memorial<{POST_SNAPBACK}> There's just short of 3000 separate names on the various war memorials maintained by the Council. Watch this space for more details in a few weeks. My "grand plan" is bubbling along nicely. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Johnson Posted 30 May , 2005 Share Posted 30 May , 2005 Bernard, I hope this project works out well but I have a word of cauition to add, if I may. There may be times when "official" accounts differ from the "personal" ones and these can be quite significant. Your research will have to be quite in-depth and will take some considerable time to complete. During my own research I read a newspaper account where a local NCO had been awarded the "Ribbon"to the DCM . He had served on the Western Front from 1914 to 1918, was Gassed and eventually discharged. He died a few months later from the effects of his wounds and his name was added to the local war memorial, with the letters DCM next to it. Along I come,some 80 years later, only to discover that he never was awarded the DCM nor was he entitled to it. All other publications on the local memorial had recorded this man as a holder of the DCM. This was a fairly easy case of verification but it did highlight the fact that great care has to taken when producing text that may be read and used by others in the future, in order that accounts remain as factual as possible. Something, it appears, other writers had not bothered to do. Good Luck with your project. PAUL JOHNSON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernardmcilwaine Posted 31 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2005 hiya paul,fully agree,but i only use stuff thats pretty accurate,ime lucky in the fact about gallantry awards because i have the lists,my idea is to combine the official diary with the 16th batts signal sections,which is very detailed,also with varified personal accounts,pictures and just about anything else that is of interest,its a bit of a personal campaign,ime fed up of reading war diaries that only mention the officers,the ordinary bloke deserves a mention as well,i wonder what happened to all the info about other ranks,surely someone mentioned the ORs by name in their daily reports,bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Johnson Posted 31 May , 2005 Share Posted 31 May , 2005 Bernard, Sadly, very few of the war diaries mention the O/R's by name, which has been a thorn in the side of many researchers since their creation. There are occassions when Casualty lists have been prepared or O/R's mentioned by name but these tend to be the exception rather than the rule. Whilst I am sure everyone would agree that it would be great to see O/R's mentioned in greater depth, it has to be remembered that the diaries were produced under combat conditions and information was often sparse, irratic and confused. Men could be missing for days and then turn up, or be taken prisoner, or be blown to pieces. This would mean that amendments would need to be made to any lists drawn up by the officer responsible for preparing the diary. Given the circumstances, it was easier not to mention O/R's by name but prodruce a simple indication of the casualties suffered. Hope this helps. Regards PAUL J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernardmcilwaine Posted 31 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2005 hiya paul,i agree about the reports being written under trying conditions,but wasnt it the same for officers,they went missing,blown to pieces etc,who wrote their report out when all officers were down,i have a few pages of an officer who mentions three ORs by name whilst under fire in trones wood,that info is not in the war diary,john hartley can vouch for that because i sent him copies for his own 17th archive,the info were for CITATIONS,i would have thought that they were important enough to be included,i am not belittleing any man its not the fault of those officers who are mentioned,its the fault of the compilers,just another query,where does most of the info on a mans fate come from,it must be mentioned somewhere in a report,all these people who write rolls of honour dont guess at it,another EG,a lady in my town lost both her uncles in the war,albert+william rothwell[bros]william was lying in a shell hole slightly wounded along with a dead pte a wounded officer and his platoon sgt,the sgt told william that he had to get the officer back and he will come back for him,after doing this the sgt returned but there was no sign of william,after the war williams father happened to be at manchester town hall and recognised the sgt because they had met before,he and william had been pally prewar,sgt entwistle told williams father that he looked all over for him,but there was no sign,sgt entwistle wrote out a report of the events of the day cos most or all his officers were down,try and find it in the war diary,you wont,because of the editing,bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Nelson Posted 4 June , 2005 Share Posted 4 June , 2005 Hi all, I have compiled something similiar to what Bernard has described here. I wanted to research my Great Grandfathers war service, and basically have ended up writting a history of his unit. As he was in the RFA his unit was supporting different divisions at different times. I have combined the unit war diary of Great Grandads 330 Brigade, with the regimental histories of the infantry they were supporting at the time. This way you get a much more complete picture of the action taking place. I also included relevant pictures and personal memoirs where appropiate. On top of that I included a description of the big picture EG What big campaign the individual actions were part of. This gives the reader a bettere understanding of what was going on. All in all it gives a very good overview of what Great Grandad got up to. It was a lot of fun to write and now the extended family knows what our Great Grandfaher did all those years ago. Best regards Aaron. PS I could not have done the above without the help of everyone on this site, so thanks to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Johnson Posted 4 June , 2005 Share Posted 4 June , 2005 Bernard, Further to my last reply. I was looking at the War Diary for 161 Brigade RFA on Thursday and guess what? On the reverse of each page there was a listed of all casualties including wounded of both Officers and O/R'S. It was real fascinating stuff but what really pleased me was the man I was researching was mentioned by name, the only casualty of the day. He was wounded on the 29th August 1917 and discharged from service on the 14th December 1917. So his injuries were severe enough to warrant a discharge. Just thought you'd like to know. Regards PAUL J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernardmcilwaine Posted 5 June , 2005 Author Share Posted 5 June , 2005 nice one paul,wish the manchesters were as detailed,bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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