john w. Posted 29 May , 2005 Share Posted 29 May , 2005 I am researching the Ramsden Bellhouse Parish Memorial and there are the above listed I is Isaac Royal Marine Light Infantry.. he is listed and fits Name: GARLAND, ISAAC Initials: I Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sergeant Regiment: Royal Marine Light Infantry Unit Text: 4th R.M. Bn. Age: 29 Date of Death: 23/04/1918 Service No: PO/15128 Additional information: Son of Philip and Thurza Garland, of 3, Hope Cottages, Park Rd., Ramsden Heath, Essex; husband of Florence M. Garland, of 10, Cottage Grove, Whitworth Rd., Gosport, Hants. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead W C appears as plain W William and resided in Ramsden, same mother and father as Isaac Name: GARLAND Initials: W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment: Queen's Own (Royal West Kent Regiment) Unit Text: 6th Bn. Age: 22 Date of Death: 03/07/1918 Service No: 2086 Additional information: Son of Mr. and Mrs. P. Garland, of Ramsden Heath, Essex; husband of F. N. Ramsey (formerly Garland), of Aylett's Cottage, Broomfield, Chelmsford, Essex. P is the problem... cant find him/her at all on CWGC or SDGW Family details from the census Arthur Garland 9 Essex Ramsden Bellhouse Essex Ramsden Bellhouse Ernest Garland 8 Essex Ramsden Bellhouse Essex Ramsden Bellhouse Fred Garland 2 Essex Ramsden Bellhouse Essex Ramsden Bellhouse George Garland 13 Essex Ramsden Bellhouse Essex Ramsden Bellhouse George Garland 63 Essex Ramsden Bellhouse Essex Ramsden Bellhouse Agricultural Labourer Isaac Garland 12 Essex Ramsden Bellhouse Essex Ramsden Bellhouse Philip Garland 39 Essex Ramsden Bellhouse Essex Ramsden Bellhouse Agricultural Labourer William Garland 3 Essex Ramsden Bellhouse Essex Ramsden Bellhouse Alice Garland 5 Essex Ramsden Bellhouse Essex Ramsden Bellhouse Alice Garland 29 Essex Ramsden Bellhouse Essex Brentwood General Servant Annie Garland 22 Essex Ramsden Bellhouse Essex Ramsden Bellhouse Pretoria Garland 10M Essex Ramsden Bellhouse Essex Ramsden Bellhouse Rose Garland 10 Essex Ramsden Bellhouse Essex Ramsden Bellhouse Any ideas? Photos to help John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 29 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 29 May , 2005 Other side of the memorial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 29 May , 2005 Share Posted 29 May , 2005 Hallo John Could this be your man - he seems to be the son of Philip Garland, and born in Billericay - not sure how this fits in geographically Percy Garland Regards Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted 29 May , 2005 Share Posted 29 May , 2005 John What a coincidence. William was living in my village when he died and I did an article on him for my parish newsletter which I've quoted below. I also wrote an extended article for the village website and have included the link. There is some confusion regarding his age which is dealt with on the website. ------------ "William Garland was one of the Great War casualties whose name never made it onto the village war memorial tablet. He was 19 years old when he attested into the Royal West Kent Regiment on 7/9/1914, one month after the outbreak of war. Originally from Billericay in Essex, he enlisted at Maidstone which suggests that he had made the move across the Thames before 1914. On arrival in France in July 1915, William joined the 7th Battalion and was with the BEF until March 1917 when he had to be evacuated to England suffering from a mammary cist. After an operation, hospitalisation and some sick leave, he left number 8 Westfield Cottages for the last time on 17/12/1917. His wife Florence was eight months pregnant with their only daughter Patience Helen. Patience never got to see her father because on 9/7/1918, Florence received the dreaded telegram that had become all too common in Lower Halstow by late 1918; William had tragically died at No 56 casualty clearing station on the 3rd of July. The following possessions were found on his body: Dice, letters, photos, coin, brush, cigarette case, alum rings, 3 badges, mirror wallet, purse, pipe (broken). He was buried at BAGNEUX BRITISH CEMETERY, GEZAINCOURT, Somme, France. More detail on William Garland is available on the village website including his medical and disciplinary record along with his wife’s pension entitlements." ---------- Garland Happy reading Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 29 May , 2005 Share Posted 29 May , 2005 As Mick has mentioned that William Garland was originally from Billericay, it now seems very likely that Percy Garland is the right man. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 29 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 29 May , 2005 Thanks for the information.... Have you any more information on Percy Garland The only Percy I have found is below Name: GARLAND, PERCY Initials: P Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment: 3rd Dragoon Guards (Prince of Wales' Own) Date of Death: 24/03/1918 Service No: 101479 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 1 and 2. from CWGC... this isnt the same man... Is there a tie up with Isaac and William?? If yes then it must be the Billericay connection although that isnt proof positive of immediated family.. see web address for further info... http://www.stock.org.uk/history/ramsden-bellhouse/index.htm It is still being added to.... Michael what a great story... the memorial is near to my village at least he is remembered there. Seems that the Garlands gave three sons in the war... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 30 May , 2005 Share Posted 30 May , 2005 Thanks for the information.... Have you any more information on Percy Garland The only Percy I have found is below <{POST_SNAPBACK}> John The service papers on the link above give Percy Garland as born 17/12/1893 in Billericay, the son of Philip Garland of Billericay. The service number on those papers [174283] tie in with this man: Percy Garland although the 'next of kin' details on the CWGC give a different connection. The 1901 census for Ramsden Bellhouse shows a Percy Garland in Dowsetts Lane with grandparents: RG13/1668/10/folio28/page 12 George Garland 63 Agricultural Labourer Mary A. Garland 59 Annie Garland 22 their daughter Percy M. Garland 7 Grandson It's possible, but slightly unlikely that Percy is the son of Annie [with a different Philip as father?] so perhaps just staying there on census night. The parish register entries would sort it out. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted 30 May , 2005 Share Posted 30 May , 2005 (edited) John / Sue I've been going through my research notes and here is what I found The Garlands living at the house in Dowsetts lane in 1901 were as follows; Head - Philip Garland Aged 39, Agricultural worker Wife - Thurza Garland Aged 34 Son - George aged 13 Son - Isaac aged 12 Daughter - Rose aged 10 Son - Arthur aged 9 Son - Ernest aged 8 Daughter - Alice aged 5 Son - William aged 3 Son - Fred aged 2 Daughter - Pretoria M aged 10 months William's BWM and VM were returned (KR 1743). I have an image of his medal roll. Let me know if you want a copy. Finally, there is the record of his daughter's baptism in Lower Halstow FIVE DAYS AFTER HIS WIFE RECEIVED THE TELEGRAM notifying her of his death Is Dowsetts Lane still in existance ? Mick Edited 30 May , 2005 by Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 30 May , 2005 Share Posted 30 May , 2005 (edited) The 1901 census image shows that Percy and the grandparents were living next door but one from the main family in Dowsetts Lane - Percy's place of birth is actually given as Canning Town, but that's perhaps just the result of different people giving the information. John - if you would like a copy of the census image let me have an email address and I'll send it. Sue And just to add a little bit of guesswork to all this - the surname of the next of kin on the CWGC entry in Burlington, Ontario, which is 'Farraway,' seems to be a surname prevalent in the North Middlesex/Essex area, with a few in Canning Town, so perhaps a sister of Philip or Thurza Garland who married and emigrated to Canada. Edited 30 May , 2005 by SueL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 30 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2005 So what you are saying then is that Percy may be a cousin, to Isaac and William, who were brothers.. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 30 May , 2005 Share Posted 30 May , 2005 So what you are saying then is that Percy may be a cousin, to Isaac and William, who were brothers.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> John No, not at all - I obviously did my learning in the school of muddled writing. What I'm saying is that IMHO Percy is their brother who just happened to be two doors down on census night with his granny. Which is not surprising seeing how many of them were crowded into Garland Towers. Unless, of course, he was the child of Annie's incestuous relationship with her elder brother Philip. You'll have to make of it what you will, and to prove it either get the birth certificate, or check the PRs. I'll send the image. Sue [Off to have a lie down ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 30 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2005 Sue... sent you an email.. By the way having read this... what relation is Annie then? IYHO John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosemary Clarke Posted 30 May , 2005 Share Posted 30 May , 2005 'Unless, of course, he was the child of Annie's incestuous relationship with her elder brother Philip'. Now that would make an interesting article for the parish magazine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 30 May , 2005 Share Posted 30 May , 2005 'Unless, of course, he was the child of Annie's incestuous relationship with her elder brother Philip'. Now that would make an interesting article for the parish magazine! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Rosemary Sadly, I think the parish magazine will be remaining respectable - unfortunately it seems that Annie is Percy's auntie and not his mum! Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 30 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2005 Top end of Dowsetts Lane, Ramsden Heath Dowsetts Lane, Ramsden Heath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 30 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2005 Dowsetts Lane John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 30 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2005 The small village green with war memorial and village sign. Many of the original buildings have gone to make way for 80s builds... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 30 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2005 William's wife went to live in Goldhanger after he was killed I think, just to let you know its to the NE of Maldon in Essex, near the coast. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernardmcilwaine Posted 31 May , 2005 Share Posted 31 May , 2005 good bit of detective work folks,bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 31 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2005 So by the time war broke out they had moved from Dowsetts Lane and were elsewhere.. Son of Philip and Thurza Garland, of 3, Hope Cottages, Park Rd., Ramsden Heath, Essex; (from Isaacs CWGC entry) Ramsden Heath doesnt even have a church! Maybe I will have to look in the next village, Ramsden Bellhouse. I was wondering where George or Philip or Thurza were buried, assuming they didn't move as well ! I mean Isaac was in Gosport, Hampshire: Percy was in Canada: William in Kent: I reckon they had a big family so some had to move I have had a look and have no idea where it is John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted 31 May , 2005 Share Posted 31 May , 2005 William's wife went to live in Goldhanger after he was killed I think, just to let you know its to the NE of Maldon in Essex, near the coast. John <{POST_SNAPBACK}> John, it looks like she remarried pretty soon which is quite understandable. It's turning into quite a story isn't it. This kind of thread rekindles my faith in the forum. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 31 May , 2005 Share Posted 31 May , 2005 John I couldn't resist having another prod at this today, and just by chance while perusing 'Farraways', I found this marriage: June quarter 1907 West Ham ref: 4a 5 Robert James Farraway and Alice Garland So [leezen very carefully...] This Alice could be the one on the 1901 census who is 29 and a general servant. I believe her to be Philip's sister, and therefore, Percy's aunt. So she marries Mr. Farraway, and they hot foot it off to Burlington, Ontario, and that gives the next of kin in the CWGC details. At that time a woman would use her husbands initial, so when it says 'Mrs. R. Farraway' - that's her - Auntie Alice! My bill is on the way! Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 31 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2005 John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Clay Posted 1 June , 2005 Share Posted 1 June , 2005 John, Perhaps the following info from the 1891 Ramsden Bellhouse census will make the family relationships a bit clearer RG12/1383 folio 13 page 6: Residence "on the Heath" (could Edward be son of George/brother of Philip?) Edward Garland, 25, born Ramsden Bellhouse Julia Garland, 22, wife, born Basildon RG12/1383 folio 14 page 8 Residence Dowsetts Lane George Garland, 49, born Ramsden B. Mary Ann Garland, 53, wife, born Wickford Annie Garland, 12, daughter, born Ramsden Heath Edith Garland, age??, daughter, born Billericay Luke Garland, 3, grandson, born Ramsden Heath (confirming that Annie on the 1901 must be Percy's aunt) RG12/1383 folio 14 page 8 Residence Dowsetts Lane, apparently 2 doors away from the above. Philip Garland, 29, born Ramsden Heath Thurza Garland, 24, wife, born South Hanningfield George Garland, 3??, son, born Ramsden Heath Isaac Garland, 2, son, born RH Rose Garland, 4 months, daughter, born RH Hope this helps. Regards, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 1 June , 2005 Author Share Posted 1 June , 2005 Cracking... Cheers Jim John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now