Soldiers` burials

[PhilB]

A recent TV programme showed a line of WW1 soldiers laid out for burial. Most seemed to be without their boots. What, officially, was taken off a body before burial and, possibly more pertinently, what was unofficially removed? I`d be interested to hear from bk and the Belgian diggers as to what is and what isn`t usually on a man`s remains. Phil B

[Paul Reed]

I think you will find that it varies greatly, depending on the circumstances of death and burial. If buried by a burial party with no threat of enemy action, then all the soldier's equipment was removed, along with all possessions etc. The former was increasingly important as salvage became a way to save on producing new war materials. Helmets were normally removed, unless for specific reasons, which make gruesome reading and I will leave it to your imagination. This was certainly the case with the soldiers found at Pont du Jour. Conditions on the battlefield often made all this impossible; graphically uncovered by the Diggers and the team at Zonnebeke, most recently.

[Mat McLachlan]

A slight aside, but this topic brings to mind the rather unsettling photo taken of Germans loading Australian bodies onto a light railway after Fromelles. Most of these men had their boots removed by the Germans - replacements (it said in the caption) for the uncomfortable standard-issue German boots. Nasty...

Mat

[PhilB]

Thanks, gents. Would you expect British killed to have their boots removed before a British burial? Perhaps the Belgian diggers can say whether skeletons tend to have boots on? Phil B

[Aurel Sercu]

  Perhaps the Belgian diggers can say whether skeletons tend to have boots on? Phil B

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Phil,

I don't recall whether all still had their boots on (in many cases the remains were only fragmentary), but for many or most : yes.

But let's not forget : the vast majority of these men had not been buried (at least not officially), since they were found in no man's land. Probably just dumped in a shell hole or abandonned trench.

Aurel

[PhilB]

Phil,

I don't recall whether all still had their boots on (in many cases the remains were only fragmentary), but for  many or most : yes.

But let's not forget : the vast majority of these men had not been buried (at least not officially), since they were found in no man's land. Probably just dumped in a shell hole or abandonned trench.

Aurel

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, you`re right, Aurel. Those wouldn`t be "formal" burials. Phil B

[BeppoSapone]

The Germans were noted for removing, and wearing, the boots of British dead. Sometimes they took the boots from POWs as well.

I think that this was to do with the poor quality of their own boots, due to the British blockade.

I believe that Germans were noted for stealing boots in the 1918 Spring Offensive, I have seen a lot of photos of British dead with just their socks on their feet.

[bernardmcilwaine]

The Germans were noted for removing, and wearing, the boots of British dead. Sometimes they took the boots from POWs as well.

I think that this was to do with the poor quality of their own boots, due to the British blockade.

I believe that Germans were noted for stealing boots in the 1918 Spring Offensive, I have seen a lot of photos of British dead with just their socks on their feet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hiya phil,i can only quote john hallows of the manchesters,he was a SB with the 20th batt,he was on burial detail and he said that if left alone by the germans they usually took off their equipment and helmets,then they would empty their pockets and place the items in a gas mask satchel and then take the mans details and give them to the officer who was always present,then they were put in a prepared grave, boots and all,he did say that this wasnt always the case though,because on many occasions they had been laying out for days or longer,so it was just a matter of getting them underground quickly,bernard

[john w.]

Seems like whilst respect was given to the fallen, the circumstances of the action going on around might determine the level of burial received... shell hole or full military funeral

John

[bernardmcilwaine]

hiya john,your right,it did depend on the activity in the area,if it was quiet then they could expect some sort of decent burial,but even then it depended on the condition of those being buried,many were in a bad state,so i think it would be just a case of trying to find his ID disc,bernard

[PhilB]

But in a "normal" burial, do you think they`d have left all his uniform on including belt, boots, jacket etc? Phil B

[bernardmcilwaine]

phil,i can only quote john hallows the SB,he said,equipment,helmet etc,uniform and boots stayed on,bernard

[PhilB]

Gents, this is the photo (Captioned "burials on the Somme") that prompted this question. It`s clearly a quietish area and the bodies all appear to have their boots removed. That can`t be coincidence? Phil B

[RichardH]

This is a gruesome photo and the chap at the front of the photo brings to mind what Paul said earlier in the post about removal of helmets etc- its sobering to think what is (or isn't) underneath this helmet here.

[bernardmcilwaine]

phil,do you think these poor blokes boots were taken by the germans,i ask because some have no socks on,the germans used to take the socks as well,bernard

[Jim Strawbridge]

I am a medal man - not a uniform and equipment man. I am assuming that the casualties are wearing British uniform. But the man with the pick axe appears to have a different design helmet to those that I associate with the British. Any comments?

[PhilB]

You gents could be right! It may be Germans burying British dead? Phil B

[6th Shropshires]

It may be Germans burying British dead

This is a German burial party, I used this photo (I.W.M. Q 23688) in my book.

Annette

[jayne w]

You gents could be right! It may be Germans burying British dead? Phil B

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I assumed so! Where did you find the photo? I've not seen it before?

Jayne W

[PhilB]

The photo was in 1914-18 The Great War and the Shaping of the 20th Century by Jay Winter & Blaine Baggett. Page 186. Phil B

[Desmond7]

Annette - are these victims of the March 21 episode?

Des

[6th Shropshires]

The photo dates from April 1918 but I could not find the IWM capshion for this photo.

Annette

[Desmond7]

Cheers.

[6th Shropshires]

Hi Des

we must be on the same wave length, you must have posted as I was typing. I am not sure now if they are victims of the Somme fighting or Flanders but I used the photo in my book in connection with the end of Somme fight (early April).

Annette