steve140968 Posted 24 May , 2005 Share Posted 24 May , 2005 Can anyone please tell me what system was used , if any at all to assign a soldier to a company ? Was it for instance ' by name , age , enlistment date or was there simply no order to it , many thanks . Steve . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doogal Posted 24 May , 2005 Share Posted 24 May , 2005 Hi Steve, I wish I could help with a full answer but can only give the following: The 2nd West Riding Reg. Went into the line at Arras on 9th April 1917. Between then and the end of the month, the war diary records a company reorgaisation over a period of four days directly after comig out of the line on 15th April, the re-organising again on the 24th April. I don't know to what extent men were interchanged, but it appears to have been done at a level at which you may not be able to find out if any set criteria existed. To be fair, I don't even know for sure whether "reorganising of companies" actually means anythig close to what I have described, but common sense dictates it can't be much else. regards doogal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve140968 Posted 24 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 24 May , 2005 Thanks doogal . I suppose what i'm trying to do is determine which company my grandfather 'MAY' have been in . I know that it is highly unlikely that i will ever find out , but i thought i would have a go at narrowing it down if possible . Regards , Steve . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPotter Posted 24 May , 2005 Share Posted 24 May , 2005 Steve, It's a problem I've been struggling with myself, and short of turning up a Company roll or finding named individuals referred to when discussing the actions of a particular Coy I'm afraid it's just about impossible. Sometimes one Coy took the brunt of the casualties in a 'localised' action (such as a trench mortar landing in a specific part of the front line) but this does not exclude the possibility of others from another Coy also being casualties on the same date from other causes, but it does narrow the odds. Best of luck. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doogal Posted 24 May , 2005 Share Posted 24 May , 2005 Thanks doogal . I suppose what i'm trying to do is determine which company my grandfather 'MAY' have been in . I know that it is highly unlikely that i will ever find out , but i thought i would have a go at narrowing it down if possible . Regards , Steve . <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...same here I've had a little luck, though had to reassess when I read the war diaries My Gt Grandfather was wounded at Arras, and was admitted to one of the hopsitals that the NA have retained a&d registers for, so I managed to get his company at the time from there. However, upon closer inspection of the war diary, they reorganised right across the time he was sent inot the casualty system, so I can't be sure he was in that company for more than half an hour. If he was wounded at any time, there is a list of hospitals that the NA retain records for - it could be a route, as the company is always noted on the register. It is a small cross section, but you never know - I got lucky (unlike my Gt Grandfather! ) and was pleased to find him listed there. The main task for me is to identify which company he was in when KIA - I have the same limited expectations as you have expressed, but still hope to think of a means of achieving it. My one thought I wated to add to your question was about the numbering of platoons within a battalion: did this start with Platoon One in A company, and end with platoon thirteen in D company? (I hope that adds to your question rather than digresses too much) regards doogal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve140968 Posted 24 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 24 May , 2005 Thanks Steve , i find hard to believe that there wouldn't have been a system used for determining this and was hoping for a 'golden nugget' of information to help . Regards , Steve . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doogal Posted 24 May , 2005 Share Posted 24 May , 2005 short of turning up a Company roll apparently they are kept in the same room as the Holy Grail at the National Archive Did such a thing ever exist? A different way of deducing his company might be if you have any indication of who his platoon commander was. It might just be possible to then trace through the war diaries to see what company he was in. Another long shot I'm afraid. regards doogal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPotter Posted 24 May , 2005 Share Posted 24 May , 2005 My one thought I wanted to add to your question was about the numbering of platoons within a battalion: did this start with Platoon One in A company, and end with platoon thirteen in D company? Doogal, Close - extra lessons in maths required though! Platoons 1-4 in A Coy, 5-8 in B Coy, 9-12 in C Coy and 13-16 in D Coy. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve140968 Posted 24 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 24 May , 2005 Thanks doogal . It's very interesting that you say about the information found with regards to the hospital your great grandfather was admitted to . My grandfather was also wounded at Arras and was admitted to 11 General hospital at Dannes-Camiers on the 25/4/1917 . Would you know if these records are 'still alive' at the NA doogal ? I suppose another question is was it a case of once in a company always in a company ? Regards , Steve . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPotter Posted 24 May , 2005 Share Posted 24 May , 2005 Did such a thing ever exist? A different way of deducing his company might be if you have any indication of who his platoon commander was. It might just be possible to then trace through the war diaries to see what company he was in. Another long shot I'm afraid. I guess so, although I have only ever seen a copy of a Platoon roll. Not such a bad idea. War diaries and other sources very often link officers to a particular Coy, the difficulty is linking the soldier to the officer. And to respond to the original question, I am not aware of any formal process by which men were allocated to a Coy, other than that which common sense would suggest - they were sent where they were needed. I imagine on establishment of the K Battalions it was simply first 250 men in A Coy etc. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 24 May , 2005 Share Posted 24 May , 2005 I guess so, although I have only ever seen a copy of a Platoon roll. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes. They existed allright... Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Shropshires Posted 24 May , 2005 Share Posted 24 May , 2005 Yes. They existed allright. wonder how many still exist, I would kill to get my hands on K.S.L.I. Company or platoon rolls. Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 24 May , 2005 Share Posted 24 May , 2005 wonder how many still exist, I would kill to get my hands on K.S.L.I. Company or platoon rolls. Annette <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Probably more than would be expected. The vast majority would have gone home in the officer's personal kit (as did the one illustrated) and many could possibly still be lying unfound in attics, etc. (Though I suspect many were simply thrown out over the past 90 years too!) Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doogal Posted 24 May , 2005 Share Posted 24 May , 2005 Thanks doogal . It's very interesting that you say about the information found with regards to the hospital your great grandfather was admitted to . My grandfather was also wounded at Arras and was admitted to 11 General hospital at Dannes-Camiers on the 25/4/1917 . Would you know if these records are 'still alive' at the NA doogal ? I suppose another question is was it a case of once in a company always in a company ? Regards , Steve . <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Steve, I had a quick look and unfortunaely not - the full list should be available in the archived forum. SueL did the hard work and research on this. If you can't track it down, PM me as I have a copy on my PC somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doogal Posted 24 May , 2005 Share Posted 24 May , 2005 Close - extra lessons in maths required though! Platoons 1-4 in A Coy, 5-8 in B Coy, 9-12 in C Coy and 13-16 in D Coy. a deliberate mistake, just to flush out the experts!!! Was this always the numbering order? Probably more than would be expected. Company and platoon lists!!! Are any held in museums? National Army Museum etc. doogal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPotter Posted 24 May , 2005 Share Posted 24 May , 2005 Was this always the numbering order? I think so. I'm not sure how it worked with the old 8 Coy system, but believe there were still only 16 Platoons, so only two per Company? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 25 May , 2005 Share Posted 25 May , 2005 Steve I have been desperate to find a companies listing for the 6th Batt. Northumberland Fus. but have given up hope on this. Most of the War Diaries describe the positions of individual companies and it would be so useful in finding out about the movements of individuals. Some of the N.F. Battalions had 'Histories' produced, (funded by the City of Newcastle) and these histories had listings by company as they embarked for France in 1915. Sadly the 6th Batt. had no 'History' produced. But you might be lucky. I got my father's company from postcards, sent by my mother, which included the company and platoon in the address. The post office archives seemed a good avenue of research for listings but they told me that the Field postal service was a separate organisation, these lists no longer survived and anyway the companies listings changed frequently after actions with many casualties. I do know that in some of the 'Pals' Battalions initially, the companies were formed from men from certain areas of the city and certain occupations, for instance 'A' company was a 'Quaysiders' company. (I don't think they were anything like the modern day Newcastle Quaysiders.) Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 25 May , 2005 Share Posted 25 May , 2005 Postcard showing company and platoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broznitsky Posted 25 May , 2005 Share Posted 25 May , 2005 Company and platoon lists!!! Are any held in museums? National Army Museum etc. doogal I was lucky enough to find company and other lists (like casualty) that described in which company the men of the 29th Vancouver Battalion were posted. These lists are held by the Vancouver City Archives. So perhaps it might be worth checking local museums, city halls, etc. I don't know if these lists are also held at the national Library and Archives of Canada. However, I'm sure men might have been moved from company to company as attrition hit. I'm afraid I don't know how men were originally assigned. I think rather than the first 250 going to "A", the NCOs would have divided them up equally, amongst all four companies (or 8 in the early days). This would make training and quartermaster roles more efficient, I think. Peter in Vancouver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve140968 Posted 27 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 27 May , 2005 Thankyou everyone . If only a company roll book would turn up for the 16th Middlesex . Kate , you are very lucky indeed to have this information about your father , looks as though i'll have to do the rounds around the family to see if any little nuggets turn up . Regards , Steve . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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