15th Heavy Artillery Group

[stephen binks]

I am trying to understand the 15th HAG action during the 1916 Somme offensive and which corps/Divisions it operated with.

Steve

[Old Tom]

Hello,

The Heavy Artillery Groups were either Army or Corps units. I dont know the answer to the question, but if you have access to a library the book 'History of the Royal Regiment of Artillery on Western Front 14 - 18 'by Gen Sir Martin Farndale, published by the RA Institution' gives a complete listing.

Old Tom

[bmac]

Not for 1916 it doesn't. The only mention of 15 HAG is being attached to I Corps prior to Arras in April 1917.

[Old Tom]

Hello,

Oops! Quite correct. It does however give a description of how the organisation of heavy artillery evolved and, I believe, a very good account of many of the operations during the war.

Old Tom

[KONDOA]

During this period 15 HAG was part of First Army as Army troops. Your battery was attched to this HAG during May as has previously been established by Dick Flory.

15 HAG war diary should resolve your query:

WO 95/215 Army Troops:

15 Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery 1915 May - 1917 Apr.

WO 95/216

15 Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery 1917 May - Nov

Roop

[bmac]

I didn't realise that a Brigade RGA equated to a HAG RGA. I mention it as, having checked the NA records for 3rd Army there is little or no relationship between Brigades RGA listed and the HAGs used by VII Corps in May-July 1916. Nor, where there is one number that coincides (35th), do the batteries then listed match the batteries that made up the 35th HAG during this period.

Can someone definitvely confirm or deny that Brigade RGA files represent the activities of HAGs in 1916.

Also, Steve seems to think that 15 HAG was involved in the Somme. First Army were not so involved.

[KONDOA]

Bmac,

The reference to First Army may be confusing in the way I stated it. The last records from this Brigade/HAG eminate from when the HAG was with First Army which may be the last dated diary i.e. Nov 1917. Previous to that it could have been elsewhere.

To my knowledge the term Brigade and HAG are much of a sameness. The term Brigade is reasonably consistent for RGA groupings throughout the war so far as War Diaries go.

Roop

[jhill]

My understanding (which I state only to be corrected) is that a HAG (Heavy Artillery Group) was a quasi-temporary tactical grouping of two or more brigades. Thus they would not have had their own diaries, although their constituent brigades would. My experience (from browsing the on-line Canadian diaries) suggests diaries of the CRA (Comander Royal Artillery) of the Corps or Army concerned are a good place to folow operations of HAGs. The HAGs were army troops, but operated under Corps command for operations.

It seems that the HAGs descended from the groups of "Heavy Reserve Artillery". The nomenclature seems to have come into use early in 1916. I have come to this conclusion from perusing the documents of V Corps which can be found here .

I suspect there is more to the story, which one of our experts can fill in for us.

[KONDOA]

Interestingly, the NA listings do not show any attached batteries which is quite unusual and would tend to support your "quasi temporary tactical grouping" notion.

Roop