Mike Steele Posted 2 July , 2003 Share Posted 2 July , 2003 Over a few beers on monday night I got asked if I knew which team Bell, the famous footballing VC, played for before the war. I had no idea but seeing as players tended to play for more local teams in those days I went for Huddersfield Town or one of the Bradford teams. Does anyone have any idea on this one ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Maier Posted 2 July , 2003 Share Posted 2 July , 2003 He played for Bradford Park Avenue as a professional, and before that for Crystal Palace, Bishop Auckland and Newcastle United as an amateur. I would like to pretend that was off the top of my head, but actually I found it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedley Malloch Posted 2 July , 2003 Share Posted 2 July , 2003 He never actually played for Newcastle United; he was on their books as an amateur, but there is no evidence that he ever appeared for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Steele Posted 2 July , 2003 Author Share Posted 2 July , 2003 He never actually played for Newcastle United; he was on their books as an amateur, but there is no evidence that he ever appeared for them. Thank god for that !!! I would hate to see the Mags try to claim his VC as yet another 'trophy' they have won Thanks for the reply guys, I can feel at least a bit smug that I guessed at Bradford !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttd0 Posted 2 July , 2003 Share Posted 2 July , 2003 I think there was another VC that played for Celtic after the Great War Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG DAVE Posted 2 July , 2003 Share Posted 2 July , 2003 On the subject of sporting heroes members may wish to note that the Commonwealth War Graves Commission has produced an interesting information sheet on prominent sportsmen and women killed during the two world wars. Amongst those featured are Hedley Verity the former Yorkshire and England cricketer and Walter Tull one of the first black professional footballers who played for Spurs in 1909-11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedley Malloch Posted 2 July , 2003 Share Posted 2 July , 2003 Thank god for that !!! I would hate to see the Mags try to claim his VC as yet another 'trophy' they have won Well, actually, Mike, let me let you into the best-kept secret of WW1. Donald Bell, VC, was not killed in 1916. He survived the war and is alive and well today. How has he preserved his anonymity? How has he managed to conceal himself in total obscurity? Where is he today. He's been playing centre-forward for Sunderland - that's how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedley Malloch Posted 2 July , 2003 Share Posted 2 July , 2003 I think there was another VC that played for Celtic after the Great War Tim He was William Angus VC. See: http://www.forvalour.com/vc5.htm for further details. He played for Celtic before the war. The horrific injuries he sustained in winning his VC meant that he could never play again, though he did stay in football in an administrative capacity. Remembering this week Tommy Goodwill of Bates Colliery, Blyth, Northumberland, a member of the great Newcastle United team which dominated Edwardian football, who was killed on July 1 1916 in the NF attack on Thiepval. His body, if found, was never identified and today he is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Steele Posted 2 July , 2003 Author Share Posted 2 July , 2003 Thank god for that !!! I would hate to see the Mags try to claim his VC as yet another 'trophy' they have won Well, actually, Mike, let me let you into the best-kept secret of WW1. Donald Bell, VC, was not killed in 1916. He survived the war and is alive and well today. How has he preserved his anonymity? How has he managed to conceal himself in total obscurity? Where is he today. He's been playing centre-forward for Sunderland - that's how. Now, now Hedley, you should not speak ill of the dead. By that I mean Sunderland football club not the great Mr Bell himself !!! I suspect you are betraying your own allegiances here A friend of mine is a keen Hearts fan and he often gets all dewey eyed after a few beers and recites how the entire team marched down and enlisted as one. I wonder if this happenned anywhere else ?? Can you imagine footballers these days doing that ?? It would take the likes of Beckham most of the war just to agree a deal on image rights and a nice looking uniform before they signed up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedley Malloch Posted 2 July , 2003 Share Posted 2 July , 2003 Absolutlely, Mike. Half-Scot, half-Irish and 100% Geordie; some would add 'bloody-minded', but for the life of me I cannot see why. I take it that you are a Mackem Black Cat; I will not intrude any further during this sensitive time on what must be a private grief for you. On a serious note, NUFC lost three players during WW1 and two in the Spanish Influenza epedemic afterwards. Do you have any information on SAFC losses over this period? Kind Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Steele Posted 2 July , 2003 Author Share Posted 2 July , 2003 Absolutlely, Mike. Half-Scot, half-Irish and 100% Geordie; some would add 'bloody-minded', but for the life of me I cannot see why. I take it that you are a Mackem Black Cat; I will not intrude any further during this sensitive time on what must be a private grief for you. On a serious note, NUFC lost three players during WW1 and two in the Spanish Influenza epedemic afterwards. Do you have any information on SAFC losses over this period? Kind Regards Of course Hedley !! In fact if I check out the photo taken by IanW at Delville Wood yesterday you will see the horrific sight of me sporting a Sunderland t-shirt and fleece I am a Durham lad born and bred, hence my interest in the DLI and Butte de Warlencourt. I don't have information regarding SAFC players in ther Great War, but that make an interesting topic to research one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedley Malloch Posted 2 July , 2003 Share Posted 2 July , 2003 Mike, Would I be right in saying that a lot of Durham Terriers who died at the Butte de Warlencourt were not Mackems, but Smoggies and Monkey-Hangers? Glad you enjoyed your trip. Kind Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coulson Posted 2 July , 2003 Share Posted 2 July , 2003 According to my info from the Green Howards Museum, he did actually play for Newcastle as an amateur before turning professional with Bradford Park Avenue, making his pro debut against Wolves at Molineux on April 13th 1913. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coulson Posted 2 July , 2003 Share Posted 2 July , 2003 Hedley, Yes a lot of the Durhams were recruited from Smoggie and Monkey-Hanger land. For the uninitiated, Smoggie - Middlesbrough Monkey-Hanger - Hartlepool. Although I now live in Mbro, many of my family are Monkey-Hangers and proud of it. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedley Malloch Posted 2 July , 2003 Share Posted 2 July , 2003 Bob; Could you ask the Green Howards Museum for details of his playing record with the Magpies? Bell does not appear in the club's official history. The most detailed account of Bell's life I've read appeared in Stand To a few years ago. From memory (which is increasingly frail) Bell played for the Bishops and signed amateur forms for NUFC. But he never pulled on a first-team shirt for them. He found life difficult on an assistant schoolteachers's pay with a wife to support. He asked Newcastle for professional status; they refused. Bradford PA stepped in and he signed pro forms with them. He appeared a handful of times for Bradford PA before enlisting. He was supposed to be a better cricketer than footballer and put down his hand-grenade throwing skills which helped to win him his VC to cricket. I would like this story to be false. I would love to be able to say that, yes, he definitely did wear black and white. Middlesbrough is a great place and I know it well; I worked there for many years. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coulson Posted 3 July , 2003 Share Posted 3 July , 2003 Hedley, The info you have seems to be about what the Green Howards have. He played for both Bishop Auckland and Newcastle as an amateur but was offerred pro terms by Bradford and saw this as you say as an excellent way to supplement his teaching wages. I guess he dosn't appear in the Magpies history because of his amateur status at the time. I was at the museum a month or so back and they have a copy of his last letter home on display and bullet riddled helmet. And yes you're right Hedley, Mbro isn't as bad as it's depicted in the national press. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Steele Posted 3 July , 2003 Author Share Posted 3 July , 2003 From what I remember of my 50th Divisional history, a lot of the territorial DLI men came from Boro and Hartlepool and I believe different companies came from different towns or areas. Little wonder they prodiced so many battalions considering they recruited from Gateshead down to Middlesborough. Another connection with Hartlepool of course is that it was DLI men who were among the casualties when the town was bombarded by the German fleet. Back to my original point, I wonder if the PFA or the FA have a roll of honour of professional footballers killed in action ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedley Malloch Posted 3 July , 2003 Share Posted 3 July , 2003 Bob: I'll chase it up with the club historian. Middlesbrough must be a contender for the finest civic war memorial in the UK. It is certainly one of the biggest in terms of the number of names it carries. There must be 3000+ names on the panels outside Albert Park. Mike: Of the three terrier DLI batallions invovled at the Butte on November 13, 1916, one was raised at Stockton; one in Hartlepool and the third was South Shields. I cannot remember which was which. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coulson Posted 3 July , 2003 Share Posted 3 July , 2003 Hedley, Yes it is a fine memorial and fitting tribute to the fallen of the "Boro". Just had a look at my local ref book and the Cenotaph and bronze panels set in Portland Stone walls cost about £17000. The memorial was opened on November 11th 1922. Also had a quick look through the names, all listed in the book and you're not far out, approx 3200 brave men are commemerated on the bronze plaques. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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