robbie Posted 21 May , 2005 Share Posted 21 May , 2005 Lieutenant Robert William Spong, RAF buried in Shorncliffe Military Cemetery. CWGC has his death as 30.10.1918. Which is correct? Also, is this headstone unusual? It differs from the others in this cemetery. THe RAF inscription is within the boundaries of the cross. WHat do others think of this? I would be grateful for additional information about this man. Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Bruce Posted 21 May , 2005 Share Posted 21 May , 2005 Is it actually a CWGC stone ? or a private one which just looks a bit like the 'real' thing? I'm not an expert, but isn't 'In ever loving memory of' and the year of birth pretty non-standard. Jock Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted 21 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 21 May , 2005 Is it actually a CWGC stone ? or a private one which just looks a bit like the 'real' thing? I'm not an expert, but isn't 'In ever loving memory of' and the year of birth pretty non-standard. Jock Bruce <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, Jock, I also wondered whether it was a private stone. Why wouldn't he have a CWGC stone, though? He is in the CWGC database. Odd. Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 21 May , 2005 Share Posted 21 May , 2005 Robbie I'm no expert, but I'm also pretty sure that the "in loving memory" will indicate this a private stone. As he's in the CWGC database, it's likely the Commission maintains it and, presumably, would replace it, in years to come, with the standard issue. In our local cemetery, there's a little group of WW1 service burials all with private stones and all very nicely maintained. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted 21 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 21 May , 2005 Robbie I'm no expert, but I'm also pretty sure that the "in loving memory" will indicate this a private stone. As he's in the CWGC database, it's likely the Commission maintains it and, presumably, would replace it, in years to come, with the standard issue. In our local cemetery, there's a little group of WW1 service burials all with private stones and all very nicely maintained. John <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for this, John. I mistakenly thought that all eligable sevicemen automatically got a CWGC headstone. I also have photos of two other cases in Shorncliffe. Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted 21 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 21 May , 2005 Here's another interesting case from Shorncliffe. appears to be 2 on this cross. Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Bruce Posted 21 May , 2005 Share Posted 21 May , 2005 Folks, if you search the forum for posts by Terry Denham containing the words 'private' or 'family' you should find it expained by the master himself. Jock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 21 May , 2005 Share Posted 21 May , 2005 Please forget any connection between a CWGC headstone/private headstone and qualifying for war grave status/CWGC commemoration. The type of headstone is irrelevant to such status and inclusion in the CWGC database. If you qualify under the terms of CWGC's charter/rules for war grave status, you are listed. You may have a CWGC headstone or a private headstone. It makes no difference. The reasons for having a private or an official headstone are not connected to having war grave status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 21 May , 2005 Share Posted 21 May , 2005 Robbie Your pic of Manley's cross... There are not two graves here. One name is simply a commemorative inscription for a man who died overseas and is buried overseas. This is common in UK cemeteries and may confuse visitors into thinking the commemorated person is buried there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted 21 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 21 May , 2005 Robbie Your pic of Manley's cross... There are not two graves here. One name is simply a commemorative inscription for a man who died overseas and is buried overseas. This is common in UK cemeteries and may confuse visitors into thinking the commemorated person is buried there. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, Terry including me. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 21 May , 2005 Share Posted 21 May , 2005 Seems there are many private headstones about, I have skulked around cemeteries, spotted the CWGC ones easily, and then searched for the last one, only to discover it is a private one. Like the one below http://www.stock.org.uk/history/ww1/st-gil...-macmorland.htm John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 21 May , 2005 Share Posted 21 May , 2005 About 20% of war grave headstones in the UK are private ones and so they are not at all unusual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 23 May , 2005 Share Posted 23 May , 2005 Robbie Just census stuff about your man In 1901, 12 year old Robert W Spong was living at Gothic (?) Cottage in Finchley with his father Henry (49), mother Emily (37), and brother Victor, aged 7. Going back to 1891, the family were at the same address. At this time there was another son, John, aged 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted 23 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 23 May , 2005 Robbie Just census stuff about your man In 1901, 12 year old Robert W Spong was living at Gothic (?) Cottage in Finchley with his father Henry (49), mother Emily (37), and brother Victor, aged 7. Going back to 1891, the family were at the same address. At this time there was another son, John, aged 3. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for this information Stephen. Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 23 May , 2005 Admin Share Posted 23 May , 2005 Dundas is buried at Vendresse churchyard as is says on the memorial stone, but oddly he is buried outside the enclosure with a large number of CWGC stones, which include Rivvy Grenfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 23 May , 2005 Share Posted 23 May , 2005 There are three cemeteries at Vendresse which have CWGC war graves. Vendresse British Cemetery (327) Vendresse Churchyard (43) Vendresse Communal Cemetery (1) Grenfell and JD Manley are in the Churchyard. There is another Manley (C.E.) in the British Cemetery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted 24 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 24 May , 2005 Dundas is buried at Vendresse churchyard as is says on the memorial stone, but oddly he is buried outside the enclosure with a large number of CWGC stones, which include Rivvy Grenfell. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> thanks Michelle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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