Keith Kendall Posted 20 May , 2005 Share Posted 20 May , 2005 Whilst sorting through some old family photos I found one of a WW1 grave for Private H Brazil of 1st Bn Queens Royal West Surreys. A search of CWGC site revealed he was the son of a Mrs E Brazil of Hastings. Grandad came from Sussex and his mothers name was Elvie. Could there be a possible connection? A few phone calls later confrimed he was my Grandfathers elder half brother. The belief was that he was one of the many "boy soldiers". Possibly confirmed by the fact he does not appear on the 1901 census. I will of course be following the tips in "Grandads war" but any advice/help offered about unit etc would be greatly appriciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 20 May , 2005 Share Posted 20 May , 2005 According to "Soldiers Died in the Great War" your soldier was born in Waldron, Sussex. He enlisted in Hastings, which is where he was living at the time. Died of Wounds on 17th April, 1918. There is the additional information that he had previously served in the Royal Army Medical Corps, with the number 115068. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Johnson Posted 20 May , 2005 Share Posted 20 May , 2005 Keith, The Unit War Diary can be found in the National Archives (Kew) under the following reference number; WO 95/2422 1 Battalion Queen's (Royal West Surrey Regiment) Feb 1918 - May 1919. This will give you the location of the unit at the time of his death and you may find some evidence of when he was wounded. This Link will take you to his online Medal Card which you can purchase from the NA for the fee of £3.50. You can download the card and see what further details there may be. Basil, H Regards PAUL JOHNSON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Kendall Posted 20 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 20 May , 2005 According to "Soldiers Died in the Great War" your soldier was born in Waldron, Sussex. He enlisted in Hastings, which is where he was living at the time. Died of Wounds on 17th April, 1918. There is the additional information that he had previously served in the Royal Army Medical Corps, with the number 115068. Tom <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Tom Where do you guys find all this information I'm blundering around in the dark. Curiously the service number on his grave is given as 23667 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 20 May , 2005 Share Posted 20 May , 2005 Thanks Tom Where do you guys find all this information I'm blundering around in the dark. Curiously the service number on his grave is given as 23667 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That seems to be the right number, Keith, although "Soldiers Died in the Great War" has it as G/23667. This would be his Royal West Surrey number. During the great War, soldiers' numbers were allocated on a regimental basis, so if a man changed regiments, he would be given a new number. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 20 May , 2005 Share Posted 20 May , 2005 On the 1901 Census there is this family: Ellen Brazil, born 1840 in Hellingly, Sussex, Head of family, flower hawker Harry Brazil, born 1880 in Waldron, Sussex, Son, builders labourer Horace Brazil, born 1878 in Waldron, Sussex, Son, builders labourer Richard Brazil, born 1875 in Battle, Sussex, Son, builders labourer Charles Wood, born 1839 in Crawley, Sussex, Boarder, Agric. labourer Living at 23 Church Street, St Helens Parish, Hastings. (Presumably the same road as given on CWGC?) The ages seem too old but the other information fits. Do these names fit with what you know? Apologies if they are a wild goose chase... Which I think they might be. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambo Posted 21 May , 2005 Share Posted 21 May , 2005 It seems the battalion were in the area of Meteren and were involved in very heavy fighting during the German spring offensive. They were most heavily engaged from about 5pm on the 12th of April until they were relieved on the morning of the 15th. During this period they were forced to retire when their line was broken Your man was, I would guess, wounded in these actions. The fighting seems to have been fairly continous for the whole period with the Germans attacking and the Queens counter attacking until the Queens withdrew to a stronger position Casulalties were reported as 4 officers and 36 non commisioned and other ranks killed or died of wounds, 8 officers and 161 other ranks wounded, 1 officer and 160 men missing. Hope this is of interest Hambo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Kendall Posted 22 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2005 Thanks Hambo That would seem to fit with the information on the original photograph of his grave which states "died of wounds received in action", which curiously is not on the CWGC information. I have read upteen books trying to find the possible action he was wounded in an this will be agreat help in narrowing down what to read. You would n't happen to know what battle this would be part of would you I'm still a bit green on WW1 (much better on WW2) with all the things like Third Battle of Ypre etc. Thanks again Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Kendall Posted 22 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2005 Thanks to all especially Paul he found the meadl card which I failed to do. Thanks to you all for helping novices like me find there way around. Copy of medal card attached if anyones interested. Keith Harry_Brazil_medal_card.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Kendall Posted 22 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2005 That seems to be the right number, Keith, although "Soldiers Died in the Great War" has it as G/23667. This would be his Royal West Surrey number. During the great War, soldiers' numbers were allocated on a regimental basis, so if a man changed regiments, he would be given a new number. Tom <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Tom In your earlier reply you mentioned that his place of birth was given. Was there any mention of a date of birth? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 22 May , 2005 Share Posted 22 May , 2005 Hi Tom In your earlier reply you mentioned that his place of birth was given. Was there any mention of a date of birth? Thanks <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, Keith, "Soldiers Died......" doesn't give that info. It does have details like "Died of Wounds" though. As you have noticed, the Commonwealth War Graves records don't give any information on how a soldier died. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Johnson Posted 26 May , 2005 Share Posted 26 May , 2005 Keith, Are any of the other Brazil's listed related to Harry? You never know, you could find another family member to research. Regards PAUL JOHNSON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Kendall Posted 26 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 26 May , 2005 Hi Paul The short answer is I don't know. I have been led to understand that my Great Grandmother Elvie (Harry Brazil's mother) Was married 3 times, firstly to Mr Brazil, secondly to Wiliam Clayton (thats where my Grandfather Henry " Harry" Clayton comes in) and finally to a Mr Trigwell. She apparently had 17 children, not all of whom survived infancy. My research has so far only identified 7 of these only 1 of which was a Brazil. You have possed an interesting question. I'm going to Hertfordshire archive tomorrow to check "Soldiers died" so I'll check any other Brazil's for adresses in Hastings area. Who knows? Thanks for the suggestion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 26 May , 2005 Share Posted 26 May , 2005 Keith, These people are from the 1901 Census. I assume this is your great-grandmother and great-grandfather? Have you found all these already? William Clayton abt 1859 Brighton, Sussex, England Head, Gen labourer Elvina Clayton abt 1863 Uckfield, Sussex, England Wife Eliza Clayton abt 1887 Hastings, Sussex, England Daughter, Domestic Servant William Clayton abt 1891 Brighton, Sussex, England Son Mary Clayton abt 1893 Brighton, Sussex, England Daughter Benjamin Clayton abt 1898, Brighton, Sussex, Son Elvina Clayton abt 1900 Brighton, Sussex, England Daughter John Crowley abt 1885 Brighton, Sussex, England Boarder Living at 67 Egremont St, Brighton. In 1891 the family was: William Clayton born about 1859 Brighton, Sussex, Head, Gen labourer Elvina Clayton born abt 1863 Uckfield, Sussex, Wife Thomas Clayton, born abt 1883, Battle, Sussex Eliza Clayton, born abt 1887, Hastings, Sussex William Clayton, born abt 1890, Brighton, Sussex Living at 67 Egremont Street, Brighton William's birth registration is in June Qtr 1890 in the name of William Clayton Brazell. Eliza's birth is registered in Sep Qtr 1886 at Hastings in the name of Eliza Brazil. To me that suggests that Elvina's marriage to Mr. Brazil was earlier than you thought, and that the first of William Clayton's children was William in 1890. I hope this helps, Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Kendall Posted 27 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 27 May , 2005 Thanks Steve The information on your previous post possibly makes more sense. Your information on this post poses as many questions as it answers. I had not done a proper search of Brazils and Claytons on either 1891 or 1901 census but what you have told me about the Claytons on both census fits with what I know. I suspect that the Harry Brazil on 1901 shown as born 1880 may be the Harry Brazil killed in 1918 but that questions what his relationship was with my grandfather Henry Clayton born 1902. The fact that you have given me information that William and Eliza on the 1890 vensus were registered as Clayton Brazil (Brazell) ,in various spellings, seems to indicate some sort of link. For my grandfather and Harry Brazil to have been half brothers they would have needed to have the same mother but can't quite work out how at the moment. The various possible explainations seem endless at the moment and I can't get my brain round it. Please could you let me know where you found the information assuming you have not been doing online searches on my behalf. Thanks again Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 27 May , 2005 Share Posted 27 May , 2005 They are from a Census website search with which I have a subscription. I'll send you copies of the Census pages tonight, if you want. By the way, Eliza's birth was registered just in the name of Brazil, not "Clayton Brazil/Brazell", hence I assumed she may be the last child of Elvina's first marriage. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Kendall Posted 27 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 27 May , 2005 They are from a Census website search with which I have a subscription. I'll send you copies of the Census pages tonight, if you want. By the way, Eliza's birth was registered just in the name of Brazil, not "Clayton Brazil/Brazell", hence I assumed she may be the last child of Elvina's first marriage. Steve. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thaks Steve Yes please!!!!! to the copies and many thanks. I'll keep you informed of progress Keith PS I have done usual credit for set numbers of searches thing but how does one get a "subscription"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 27 May , 2005 Share Posted 27 May , 2005 It's a site called Ancestry.co.uk I have an annual subscription, which is £69.95, although I paid less than that through various offers, hence I help other people out with searches as well as my own to get my money's worth! I can't sort the copies from here, but I'll send later. I've got your e-mail from your earlier e-mail to me. They're fairly big files (700kb+ each) so they may take a little while to come through depending on your internet connection. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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