1/9th Bn (Glasgow Highlanders) HLI

[PPCLI]

Hello,

I have been doing a little research on Cpl. Andrew Muir, 6230/332961, 1/9th Bn. Highland Light Infantry. He survived the war and was chosen by his fellow servicemen from the village as the person to lay the wreath at the unveiling of the village war memorial in 1921. I'm fairly sure (but not certain) he was chosen because he was one of only two men (ORs) from the village who won the MM, along with the fact that he also had a younger brother who didn't make it through the war.

With a lot of help from Steve (stebie9173) I have managed to track down his entry in the suppl. to the London Gazette on 13th Sep 1918. Having checked through A to M, there appears to be a large batch (15 so far) of MMs awarded to soldiers of this bttn. around the same time.

What I would like is to have some idea of what actions these would refer to. From other threads people suggest around a three month lag time between action and award. However, from the parent site it would seem that the last major action of this bttn. was in April 1918 when the 100th Bde. (part of 33rd Division) was involved in the Battle of Messines (10th - 11th April), the Battle of Hazebrouck (12th - 15th), the Battle of Bailleul (13th - 15th), and the First Battle of Kemmel (17th - 19th). It would appear that the next major frontline action with which they were involved was the Battle of the St Quentin Canal (29th Sep - 2nd Oct). [Probably required a five month gap to regroup after their losses and to reorganise and train]

Firstly, if this is correct will these citations refer to the April actions?

Secondly, does anyone have any more details on the part played by the 9th HLI and the 100th Bde. (16th KRRC, 2nd Worcesters, 1/9th HLI) in April 1918, or on any individual officers/soldiers who were cited for gallantry at this time? I suppose finding an award for this period to an officer in the 9th HLI would be a help.

Hope you can help,

Stuart

[ceebee]

Hi Stuart

I have a medal pair (BWM and VM) for a private in 1/9 Bn HLI who was KIA on 13 April 1918. My research to date puts him in the Battle of Bailleul (13 April - 15 April 1918). He was awarded a MM for an action in 1917, which I have yet to confirm.

The 100th Brigade was also involved in the Battle of Messines (10-11 April 1918). However, it is possible not all battalions of this brigade were used. I'm not sure that the brigade was involved in the Battle of Hazebrook or the First Battle of Kemmel. The 33rd Division, generally, is listed as a participant in those battles, but I've seen an order of battle that specifically places the 100th Brigade only at Messines and Bailleul. A battalion history would confirm all events.

Hope this assists.

Chris

[PPCLI]

Hi Chris,

Thank you for you reply. Yes, I'm sure you're correct about the 100th Bde. not being involved in all these actions. Maybe (if I'm lucky) someone will have some more detailed information on which battalions within the Bde. took part in what.

A battalion history would confirm all events.

Is there such a thing for the 9th Bn. HLI covering WW1?

Cheers,

Stuart

p.s. by any chance is your medal pair to Pte. William Anderson, MM, 331047? Noticed him on the SNWM site earlier.

[ceebee]

Stuart

Shot in the dark regarding the war diary for 1/9 HLI. I can't recall seeing a reference to one. More informed members might come to the rescue with a definitive answer.

There is, however, the set of books (4 Vols) by Lt-Col L.B. Oatts called Proud Heritage: The Story of the Highland Light Infantry. Volume 4 includes coverage of the regular, territorial and service battalions in 1914-1918.

My soldier is 201535 Pte. Thomas Collard Graves. If I've interpreted things correctly, his regimental number suggests earlier service in the 4th (Extra Reserve) Battalion HLI. On transfer he retained his number.

I'd be interested in any additional information about the 9th that comes to light.

Chris

[hliguy]

Stuart

Shot in the dark regarding the war diary for 1/9 HLI. I can't recall seeing a reference to one. More informed members might come to the rescue with a definitive answer.

There is, however, the set of books (4 Vols) by Lt-Col L.B. Oatts called Proud Heritage: The Story of the Highland Light Infantry. Volume 4 includes coverage of the regular, territorial and service battalions in 1914-1918.

My soldier is 201535 Pte. Thomas Collard Graves. If I've interpreted things correctly, his regimental number suggests earlier service in the 4th (Extra Reserve) Battalion HLI. On transfer he retained his number.

I'd be interested in any additional information about the 9th that comes to light.

Chris

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dear Stuart,

There was a Glasgow Highlander battalion history written, but never published. I believe that the original manuscript is in the RHF museum. I have a xerox copy of it and can get you some info from it in the future. It may be hard to copy because I had it hard bound and it's tight. I may not be able to bend it open to lay it flat in order to copy the copy.

I can probably find lists of MM recipients from around that time out of the HLI Chronicles also which might help you.

Brian

[hliguy]

Dear Stuart,

There was a Glasgow Highlander battalion history written, but never published.  I believe that the original manuscript is in the RHF museum.  I have a xerox copy of it and can get you some info from it in the future.  It may be hard to copy because I had it hard bound and it's tight.  I may not be able to bend it open to lay it flat in order to copy the copy.

I can probably find lists of MM recipients from around that time out of the HLI Chronicles also which might help you.

Brian

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

PS: The London Gazette entry for the MM to Thomas Graves is 29/01/18.

[chris.wight]

Here's the link to the issue, here.

[PPCLI]

Hi Brian,

Thank you for replying - I hoped you might

Also, in case you didn't see it, I did reply to your help with the 51st HLI. I'm almost sure that my grandfather was abroad before 1919. I wonder if the HLI Chronicles mention any movements of young soldiers to the 2nd Bn in late 1918.

As for Cpl. Andrew Muir's MM, any information would be appreciated. I don't think I'm likely to find it anywhere else, unless it's mentioned in a local newspaper. Going from some other threads that I've been looking at it is possible that the action he was recognised for would have taken place about mid-April 1918. He was gazetted in mid-Sep, which fits in with someone writing about another soldier being gazetted in Aug for actions taken during the Spring offensive around 21-25 March.

Cheers,

Stuart

[PPCLI]

Here's the link to the issue

Hi Chris,

It's only very recently that I've managed to have a little bit more success searching the London Gazette - it's not what I would call intuitive.

Brian,

Here are the other (A to M) 9th Bn. HLI MM recipients listed in the suppl. to the London Gazette on 13th Sep 1918:

Pte. (L/Cpl) T.G. Armstrong, 333047

L/Cpl. Alexander Boyle, 330961

Pte. William Borthwick, 331584

Pte. Samuel Caldwell, 332395

L/Sjt. John Campbell, 331272

L/Cpl. Robert Gardiner, 332343

Cpl. Hugh Gilchrist, 330988/possibly 335988

Cpl. Thomas Ireland, 333056

Pte. Norman Keir, 330642

L/Cpl (Cpl) John Leslie, 332069

Sjt. William Matchett, 330309

Pte. James Montgomery, 333047

Pte. Thomas Muir, 331239

Pte. William Murphy, 332843

Brian, I'm only listing these names in case you spot one in the HLI Chronicles, then it may give an idea of what action they all were awarded for. Must of been something quite big going on, wouldn't you say?

Stuart

[chris.wight]

It's only very recently that I've managed to have a little bit more success searching the London Gazette - it's not what I would call intuitive.

It is a bit of a challenge finding things in the London Gazette; shame there isn't some sort of guide to it showing what can be found in the various issues. This site give some useful hints and tips for using the London Gazette, link.

[ceebee]

Chris

Thanks for the link to the London Gazette.

Regards

Chris

[hliguy]

Hi Chris,

It's only very recently that I've managed to have a little bit more success searching the London Gazette - it's not what I would call intuitive.

Brian,

Here are the other (A to M) 9th Bn. HLI MM recipients listed in the suppl. to the London Gazette on 13th Sep 1918:

Pte. (L/Cpl) T.G. Armstrong, 333047

L/Cpl. Alexander Boyle, 330961

Pte. William Borthwick, 331584

Pte. Samuel Caldwell, 332395

L/Sjt. John Campbell, 331272

L/Cpl. Robert Gardiner, 332343

Cpl. Hugh Gilchrist, 330988/possibly 335988

Cpl. Thomas Ireland, 333056

Pte. Norman Keir, 330642

L/Cpl (Cpl) John Leslie, 332069

Sjt. William Matchett, 330309

Pte. James Montgomery, 333047

Pte. Thomas Muir, 331239

Pte. William Murphy, 332843

Brian, I'm only listing these names in case you spot one in the HLI Chronicles, then it may give an idea of what action they all were awarded for. Must of been something quite big going on, wouldn't you say?

Stuart

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Stuart,

Page 114 of the Oct. 1918 HLI Chronicle has a report from the correspondent of the 9th Bn. The last paragraph reads as follows: ' The outcome of the operations at Neuve Eglise, the Battalion has received the following battle honours: - Bar to DSO (conferred on the Colonel), two DSO's , 5 MC's, 1 bar to DCM, 6 DCM's, 1 bar to the Military Medal, and 25 Military Medals.'

On page 139 of the same issue there are 24 MM recipients listed including 332961 A. Muir (Kirkcudbright). There is also listed a Cpl J McArthur 38(3?)1734 who won his bar to the MM. These would appear to be the men who won the MM for the campaign for Neuve Eglise. There is a detailed chapter in the 9th Bn history covering the April battles covered by that name. I will be happy to copy it and any other entries pertaining to that series of fights and mail them to you. As I told Chris, I don't know how to get copies scanned into the computer yet, so just email me your address and I'll make copies. My email address is: HLIguy@hot.rr.com

Brian

[PPCLI]

Brian,

I have emailed you my contact details. Thank you very much for your help. This is the kind of information that I would have great difficulty in finding, if at all!

Stuart

[PPCLI]

As for Cpl. Andrew Muir's MM, any information would be appreciated. I don't think I'm likely to find it anywhere else, unless it's mentioned in a local newspaper. Going from some other threads that I've been looking at it is possible that the action he was recognised for would have taken place about mid-April 1918.

For everyone who helped previously, I got lucky with the local paper:

Private Andrew Muir, Glasgow Highlanders, has been awarded the Military Medal for gallant service during operations in France from 11th to 17th April. The official story of his bravery reads as follows:

"The enemy made two very strong attacks on our position, and Private Muir by his tactical use of his Lewis gun was responsible for a large number of the enemy casualties. On another occasion he went out in front of our line with his gun and dispersed a party of the enemy who were attempting to dig in under cover. They suffered many casualties. Throughout the operations he displayed great coolness and set a splendid example."

The article also states that Andrew Muir was 35 yers old at the time and has seved his apprenticship as a baker.

Stuart

[Stebie9173]

Great stuff, Stuart.

Nice to see a great end result. Thanks for letting us know.

And good to see that your deductions were correct, too...

Steve.

[Auimfo]

Have you tried to find a copy of "In Kilt and Khaki - Glimpses of the Glasgow Highlanders in Training and on Foreign Service" by Thomas M Lyon. I have a photocopy of the second edition printed in 1916. Although more of an individuals experiences and anecdotes it still may be of interest to you.

Tim L.

[ceebee]

Stuart

Well done. Thanks for sharing your results with us and for starting the topic. This thread has been very helpful in providing leads for my research on several soldiers.

Chris

[PPCLI]

Steve - yes, finally got something right. Sometimes even I get lucky!

Tim - another new one on me. I'll add it to my ever-growing list to keep an eye out for.

Chris - I was going to be in touch with you; I have an account of the action at Neuve Eglise around the 13th Apr when 'your' man was killed. Perhaps you already have that sorted out?

If anyone has heard from hliguy (Brian) recently say hello from me. He was very helpful and posted me information all the way from the US, but has not logged onto the forum since early June. Brian - I hope you're just having a long summer holiday.

Stuart

[MartinWills]

Dear Stuart,

There was a Glasgow Highlander battalion history written, but never published.  I believe that the original manuscript is in the RHF museum.  I have a xerox copy of it and can get you some info from it in the future.  It may be hard to copy because I had it hard bound and it's tight.  I may not be able to bend it open to lay it flat in order to copy the copy.

I can probably find lists of MM recipients from around that time out of the HLI Chronicles also which might help you.

Brian

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The History is "shoulder to shoulder" a history of the 9th Bttn HLI 1914-1918 by Col. A K Reid.

It was effectively privately published in a small edition through the work of Alex Aiken of Giffnock, Glasgow who edited the edition which was made public in 1988. The original history had been written between 1930 and 1936 with full access to the battalion war diary and was ultimately deposited in the Strathclyde regional archives. This version was then tidied up by Alex Aiken in the 1980's.

My copy is also neatly and elegantly hardbound. The account of the actions at Neuve Eglise up to 13/14 April are given in some detail - some 20 pages in all and make for a fascinating read.

[ceebee]

Chris - I was going to be in touch with you; I have an account of the action at Neuve Eglise around the 13th Apr when 'your' man was killed. Perhaps you already have that sorted out?

If anyone has heard from hliguy (Brian) recently say hello from me. He was very helpful and posted me information all the way from the US, but has not logged onto the forum since early June. Brian - I hope you're just having a long summer holiday.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Stuart

I would appreciate your help as I haven't followed up on Private Graves. If it's OK with you I'll send a PM.

I haven't heard from Brian since he sent me some information and we exchanged emails. That would have been around late May or early June. I'll send another message to him.

Chris

[PPCLI]

The History is "shoulder to shoulder" a history of the 9th Bttn HLI 1914-1918 by Col. A K Reid.

My copy is also neatly and elegantly hardbound. The account of the actions at Neuve Eglise up to 13/14 April are given in some detail - some 20 pages in all and make for a fascinating read.

Hi Martin,

Yes, I knew about the book through hliguy (he sent me the Neuve Eglise chapter), but I didn't know that it had been published, albeit privately (I thought that the only way to see it was to go to the museum in Glasgow - so thanks for the info). I'm sure that the book will be a difficult one to track down. If you know of any source or if you ever see one for sale, please keep me in mind.

Stuart