Paul Hederer Posted 18 May , 2005 Share Posted 18 May , 2005 Someone asked a bit ago if there were war Great War memorials in Germany in the villages. I took some pictures of an example I saw in Bavaria recently, one that I found very unique. You can view it here: Bernried am Starnberger See I will continue to snap photos when I have a chance and can post examples here in the future if there is any interest. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 18 May , 2005 Share Posted 18 May , 2005 if there is any interest. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Come on Paul.. what do you think.... Keep 'em coming! Andy BTW Where was Johannes Furbass killed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will O'Brien Posted 18 May , 2005 Share Posted 18 May , 2005 Paul.............very nice one indeed.............now this memorial gives the name, date of death & theatre serving when died..............Frkr,Frk & Fr I assume indicates France (Frankerich)................Fld & Fland is Flanders (Flanderen)............Serbien & Italien are pretty obvious even to me with very poor German & I assume Rus is Russia (Russland)..........now this is where I start to come unstuck.............as a stab in the dark is Heim indicating the soldier died at Home (I seem to remember Heimat is home or homeland)....................but the one I can't figure out is Elfs.............any one able to clarify that abbreviation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike10764 Posted 18 May , 2005 Share Posted 18 May , 2005 Nice pictures Paul. Is vermisst German for missing, do you know ? ie Hofmann Georg Vermisst Frkr - Georg Hofmann missing in France date unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD60 Posted 18 May , 2005 Share Posted 18 May , 2005 Paul.............very nice one indeed.............now this memorial gives the name, date of death & theatre serving when died..............Frkr,Frk & Fr I assume indicates France (Frankerich)................Fld & Fland is Flanders (Flanderen)............Serbien & Italien are pretty obvious even to me with very poor German & I assume Rus is Russia (Russland)..........now this is where I start to come unstuck.............as a stab in the dark is Heim indicating the soldier died at Home (I seem to remember Heimat is home or homeland)....................but the one I can't figure out is Elfs.............any one able to clarify that abbreviation <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I suggest Elsass (Alsace) . Note: I am not able to do tje german letters with my PC... (The third digit is not a F) There was there heavy battles in 1915 (Hartmanwillerkopf _ Le vieil Armand) Alsace was not considered by germans as Frankreich of course ! Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 18 May , 2005 Share Posted 18 May , 2005 as a stab in the dark is Heim indicating the soldier died at Home (I seem to remember Heimat is home or homeland)....................but the one I can't figure out is Elfs.............any one able to clarify that abbreviation <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes... Heim is Home. Is vermisst German for missing, do you know ? ie Hofmann Georg Vermisst Frkr - Georg Hofmann missing in France date unknown. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Correct I suggest Elsass (Alsace) . Note: I am not able to do tje german letters with my PC... (The third digit is not a F) Alsace was not considered by germans as Frankreich of course ! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was on the same path as all of you. I would have guessed Elsass as well, and I don't think the f is an English f either. However I cant reconcile the Germans calling part of their territory by the French provincial name. Paul - you need to break the suspense! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hederer Posted 19 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2005 Hello! Yes, as suspected what looks like Elfs is Elsass. Indeed, the Germans called it Elsaß, or Elsass, or Elsasz (I've seen all three spellings) and that was the name of the state until 1918. Yes, vermisst is missing. I was struck by the form of the monument, it's quite different from anything else I've seen. There are a lot of names there for (what then) would have been a small village, the same as you see here in the UK. Above Garmisch we found the WWII memorial, which you can only reach by hiking. That was quite impressive, but unfortunately I have no pictures. I was truly stunned by how many men died from that town alone. I'll keep my eyes open, and keep posting. In every small village, town and city there is a monument. In Mainz they still have the fund-drive wooden statue for the war wounded full of nails (give a donation, drive in a nail). Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat McLachlan Posted 19 May , 2005 Share Posted 19 May , 2005 There's a page dedicated to German memorials (of both World Wars plus the Franco-Prussian and Prussian-Austrian) on the interesting Third Reich in Ruins website. http://www.thirdreichruins.com/memorials.htm For WWII buffs, the rest of the site is well worth checking out. Cheers, Mat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 19 May , 2005 Share Posted 19 May , 2005 Paul - great photo. Can you hazard a guess why the statue on the memorial is St. Martin? Is there some local connection, such as the name of the church? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hederer Posted 19 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2005 Tom, Indeed there is a connection--forum members' attention to detail never fails to amaze me. The memorial is directly across from Kirche zum Hl. Martin (St. Martin's Church) in Bernried which dates back to 1122. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 19 May , 2005 Share Posted 19 May , 2005 Thanks, Paul. It's certainly an impressive memorial. St. Martin was a kind, comradely soldier, so he's a good choice for a war memorial. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 19 May , 2005 Share Posted 19 May , 2005 In Mainz they still have the fund-drive wooden statue for the war wounded full of nails (give a donation, drive in a nail). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Did they steal that idea from the tree on Stefansplatz in Vienna. Sounds very similar... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hederer Posted 19 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2005 Andy, I know there was the famous wooden Hindenburg statue made of wood also, so it seems to have been (more) common. I think it's cool that it's still there. I saw it a few times before I realized what it was. It looks a bit like an example of new-age art that cities love to put in their centers. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 19 May , 2005 Share Posted 19 May , 2005 Actually Paul I am talking about the old piece of tree that is mounted on the side of a building in Stefansplatz. Apparently its been there since the middle ages and everytime a carpenter (or some such) left town he drove a nail into the tree. No one is doing it any more, but you can see whats left of the tree and a whole lot of nails. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hederer Posted 19 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2005 Andy, Oh, I didn't know that. I've been there, but never noticed the old tree. Very interesting. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will O'Brien Posted 19 May , 2005 Share Posted 19 May , 2005 Hello! Yes, as suspected what looks like Elfs is Elsass. Indeed, the Germans called it Elsaß, or Elsass, or Elsasz (I've seen all three spellings) and that was the name of the state until 1918. Paul <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for the clarification............didn't think of that one at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike10764 Posted 20 May , 2005 Share Posted 20 May , 2005 Yes, vermisst is missing. I was struck by the form of the monument, it's quite different from anything else I've seen. There are a lot of names there for (what then) would have been a small village, the same as you see here in the UK. I'll keep my eyes open, and keep posting. In every small village, town and city there is a monument. In Mainz they still have the fund-drive wooden statue for the war wounded full of nails (give a donation, drive in a nail). Paul <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Paul I'll look forward to seeing some more of Germany's memorials. It is interesting to see the different forms of commemoration across nations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roel22 Posted 21 May , 2005 Share Posted 21 May , 2005 Four years ago I visited Nordhorn, the hometown of my German great-grandfather Heinrich Unland, who was killed early 1918 in Flanders (Kemmel) and who has no known grave. During my brief stay in Nordhorn I visited the local archive. To my great surprise an employe at the archive showed me a memorial plaque, with the names of local men that were killed in 14-18. My great-grandfather was one of these men. The plaque used to hang on the wall of a building that was demolished late 70's-early 80's. Not knowing what to do with the plaque, it was since then stored between some boxes the basement of the archive. The employe told me the plaque might get a new place in the future, but he didn't have any idea where. Personally I got the feeling the people of Nordhorn wll never see the plaque again. Let me at least give the names of the men on the plaque: Vosmann Johann, Reservist Verwold Gerhard, Gefreiter Schulte Wilhelm, Vizefeldwebel Kock Gerh. Joh., Wehrmann Pörters Bernh. Grenadier Verwold Arnold, Landwehrmann Jakobs Johann, Wehrmann ??? Heils Gerhard, Unteroffizier ??? Kesekamp Gerhard, Wehrmann Berning Gerh. Bernh., Wehrmann Stroink Fritz Herbert, Vizefeldwebel Veldboer Gerh. Alb., Werhrmann Meiners Johann Heinr., Wehrmann Jecker Johann Heinr., Wehrmann Rigterink Jan, Gefreiter Deister Johannes Heinr., Leutnant des R. Sall Friedr., Unteroffizier Ackerstaff Johannes Alb., Unteroffizier Drees Johann, Unteroffizier Unland Heinr., Gefreiter Loreij August, Gefreiter Alferink Hindrik, Gefreiter Oldekamp Georg, Musketier At least a way to get their names out in the open again... regards Roel Sorry for the poor quality of the picture, it's a still from a movie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roel22 Posted 21 May , 2005 Share Posted 21 May , 2005 A second picture... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hederer Posted 22 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2005 Roel, I'm saddened and surprised by your account of the memorial in Nordhorn. Is Nordhorn a large town or a village? I would have thought there would be interest in getting the plaque up again. In Engelstadt (see other thread here) the village just had their memorial restored and repaired with the help of the Volksbund Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge. While taking the photos I posted here an older gentelman came up to me and we had a nice conversation about the memorial and the village. He said he had lived in Engelstadt "only" 50 years, so he was a new-comer. The looking at the names on the memorial he began to point out (the church is the highest point of the village) the houses of the families of the men listed there. I would imagine that most small villages would be the same. Perhaps if the village contacted VDK they could get some assistance in getting the plaque up again. I understand you may not have contact with anyone there, it's just an idea. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 24 May , 2005 Share Posted 24 May , 2005 It took me awhile to find the monument, but here is a link to the Stock im Eisen in Vienna. Sorry its auf deutsch. http://www.suf.at/wien/sagen/stock.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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