german POWs

[bernardmcilwaine]

taken from 33rd POW coy reports,No 56 pte m.berndt escaped,later recaptured.
taken from 61st POW coy reports,No460 cpl muller and No484 Lcpl schindler escaped on 13-8-17,recaptured on 16-8-17.
61st again,4-10-17,No281 pte meyer and No179,ptedlugaiczyk have escaped,later recaptured.
taken from 81st POW coy reports,on the 8-9-17,No177 pte drewnouik and No140 pte hanke have escaped,no mention of being recaptured.

[roger]

I must have missed this topic whilst away but it looks very interesting. Where were these escapes from?

Roger.

[bernardmcilwaine]

I must have missed this topic whilst away but it looks very interesting. Where were these escapes from?

Roger.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hello roger,dont worry you will catch up,it doesnt say exactly were they scarpered from,only that they escaped from these POW coys,viii corps area 1917,if i can find it again i will see what else there is and pm you,the info comes from one of nearly 200 lab coy diaries that i have,and believe me they are difficult to obtain info from unless you can give a coy ,corps or batt,bernard

[roger]

Bernard,

Am I right in assuming these are German POW's escaping after being set to work with the British VIII Corps?

Roger.

[bernardmcilwaine]

Bernard,

Am I right in assuming these are German POW's escaping after being set to work with the British VIII Corps?

Roger.

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hiya roger,yes,they scarpered while out on work details

[Boreenatra]

Hi Bern. I'm not suprised they scarpered :here's an account of local POW'S in Essex.

"In the days to come,one of the most interesting recollections of wartime will be the German prisoners, who, for so long were a feature of our countryside. The once familiar sight of these men with their distinctive discs of red and blue patches worked into their uniforms, will soon only be a memory.How, when walking through the fields in our neighbourhood, we would suddenly come upon a group of captured Huns, tilling the ground, or gathering in the harvest, according to the season of the year, and how it was borne in upon us by their prosperous appearance that they were content with their lot, and apparently in no hurry to return to their own land, at any rate , while the danger and risks of war still prevailed. Then too, when travelling on the railway, we would sometimes catch a glimpse of them in the open fields, and they would invariably pause in their work to watch the train and its passengers go by; the easy going demeanour indicating the absence of anything approaching slave driving or even harshness.

The people of our village, who frequently used Upminster en route for the Halt, will remember little groups of Germans, who were always to be found on the down platform on that station every evening, awaiting the train to Ockendon, where the local POW camp was situated. On such occasions, an efficient armed guard was mounted over them, but it was not uncommon to find German prisoners working on the land, or walking along the lanes without any visible guard whatsoever.

One sometimes questioned the wisdom of this, but it was rarely anything untoward happened, for the simple reason that the Bosche knew when he was well off, and that working on the farms of England, with good food and a comfortable shelter, was a far better and safer job than fighting Britain's sons on the battlefields of France and Belgium"

I would suggest your lads who were away on their toes were probably walking along the very same country lanes this correspondant describes!!!!!

Regards Steve.

[bernardmcilwaine]

Hi Bern. I'm not suprised they scarpered :here's an account of local POW'S in Essex.

"In the days to come,one of the most interesting recollections of wartime will be the German prisoners, who, for so long were a feature of our countryside. The once familiar sight of these men with their distinctive discs of red and blue patches worked into their uniforms, will soon only be a memory.How, when walking through the fields in our neighbourhood, we would suddenly come upon a group of captured Huns, tilling the ground, or gathering in the harvest, according to the season of the year, and how it was borne in upon us by their prosperous appearance that they were content with their lot, and apparently in no hurry to return to their own land, at any rate , while the danger and risks of war still prevailed. Then too, when travelling on the railway, we would sometimes catch a glimpse of them in the open fields, and they would invariably pause in their work to watch the train and its passengers go by; the easy going demeanour indicating the absence of anything approaching slave driving or even harshness.

The people of our village, who frequently used Upminster en route for the Halt, will remember little groups of Germans, who were always to be found on the down platform on that station every evening, awaiting the train to Ockendon, where the local POW camp was situated. On such occasions, an efficient armed guard was mounted over them, but it was not uncommon to find German prisoners working on the land, or walking along the lanes without any visible guard whatsoever.

One sometimes questioned the wisdom of this, but it was rarely anything untoward happened, for the simple reason that the Bosche knew when he was well off, and that working on the farms of England, with good food and a comfortable shelter, was a far better and safer jor than fighting Britain's sons on the battlefields of France and Belgium"

I would suggest your lads who were away on their toes were probably walking along the very same country lanes this correspondant describes!!!!!

Regards Steve.

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steve,this was in france+belgium where are they going to go,bernard

[andigger]

I am just curious how the thread title sounds written this way...

British POWs, not all Brits were glad to be POWs

Andy

[bernardmcilwaine]

I am just curious how the thread title sounds written this way...

British POWs, not all Brits were glad to be POWs

Andy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i dont think any brit was glad to be a POW,not with the crap they were fed or the treatment they were given,at least the germans were treated according to the geneva convention,the majority in our camps were eating better and more frequently than our own troops in the front line

[Boreenatra]

Sorry Bernard. Its me age.....I cant understand the threads anymore.!! But was the prevailing view in the U.K. as my man describes? And I unequivically withdraw my comment on your POW'S walking down some leafy Essex lane. Of course they weren't......but it sounds from the idyllic description of the times and conditions that there was the place they should have been! Regards Steve.

[bernardmcilwaine]

Sorry Bernard. Its me age.....I cant understand the threads anymore.!! But was the prevailing view in the U.K. as my man describes? And I unequivically withdraw my comment on your POW'S walking down some leafy Essex lane. Of course they weren't......but it sounds from the idyllic description of the times and conditions that there was the place they should have been! Regards Steve.

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hiya steve,your spot on with your post,many of those taken prisoner ended up back in england,and they were eating better than our men and far better off than their kin folk back home,i dont know how true this bit is,but i heard that they even sent food home to their families,but i take that with a pinch of salt,it beats me why someone would want to escape and ****** off back to that carnage,thats why your post is perfectly placed,it shows the option they had,hell or heaven,bernard

[Max]

at least the germans were treated according to the geneva convention

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't want to create a storm and I am sure that someone will correct me if I am wrong but I don't think that at the time of the Great War a "Geneva Convention" actually existed that dealt with the treatment of prisoners of war.

The first Geneva Convention was for " for the Amelioration of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces and Field" signed by 16 European countries in 1864

The second GC "for the Amelioration of the Condition of Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked Members of Armed Forces at Sea" adopted in 1906

The third GC "Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War" was signed by 128 nations in 1925 and adopted in 1929, over 10 years after active hostilities ceased.

The fourth GC "relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War", this convention entered into force in 1950.

Andy

[Moonraker]

i dont think any brit was glad to be a POW,not with the crap they were fed or the treatment they were given,at least the germans were treated according to the geneva convention,the majority in our camps were eating better and more frequently than our own troops in the front line

Not at the end of the war, and immediately after it, when there were acute food shortages in Britain. Six prisoners from RFC Yatesbury were in trouble in early 1919, when they appeared in court accused of stealing bacon fat from the factory of C & T Harris & Co of Calne. They had stuffed the fat down the fronts of their trousers. The camp commandant, Captain Mursell, told the court that the prisoners had bread and coffee before leaving camp and took with them a light lunch of coffee, cheese and bread. Each man's daily allowance was thirteen ounces of bread, one and a half ounces of cheese and four ounces of beef or horseflesh. This was, the captain said, "sufficient to keep them going but it was not sufficient to satisfy their abnormal appetites. They are gross seaters." All the accused were sentenced to two months in prison with hard labour.

Even hungrier must have been the three Germans from a "Salisbury Plain internment camp" caught by Amesbury police in October 1919; they had been slipping out of confinement to kill sheep, taking the carcasses to eat back at camp.

[bernardmcilwaine]

i dont think any brit was glad to be a POW,not with the crap they were fed or the treatment they were given,at least the germans were treated according to the geneva convention,the majority in our camps were eating better and more frequently than our own troops in the front line

Not at the end of the war, and immediately after it, when there were acute food shortages in Britain. Six prisoners from RFC Yatesbury were in trouble in early 1919, when they appeared in court accused of stealing bacon fat from the factory of C & T Harris & Co of Calne. They had stuffed the fat down the fronts of their trousers. The camp commandant, Captain Mursell, told the court that the prisoners had bread and coffee before leaving camp and took with them a light lunch of coffee, cheese and bread. Each man's daily allowance was thirteen ounces of bread, one and a half ounces of cheese and four ounces of beef or horseflesh. This was, the captain said, "sufficient to keep them going but it was not sufficient to satisfy their abnormal appetites. They are gross seaters." All the accused were sentenced to two months in prison with hard labour.

Even hungrier must have been the three Germans from a "Salisbury Plain internment camp" caught by Amesbury police in October 1919; they had been slipping out of confinement to kill sheep, taking the carcasses to eat back at camp.

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hiya terry,i didnt believe that story about them sending food over for one minute,but ww1 has a bad way of surprising you,regards bernard

[Boreenatra]

Bernard,Perhaps another viewpoint. If you've checked out my thread Naval Recollections, about Major Alfred Ruston, apart from surviving the sinking of the Hythe. and avoided being torpedoed in the evacuation of Helles, he was also taken as a POW. Heres some of his own account of what happened in France.

"My first feeling was one of extreme suprise. I couldn't realise the possibility that I had been captured. I had thought that I may be wounded or knocked out, but not of being captured some distance behind the front line! It was in the big German breakthrough on 30th November 1917, when a good many of us were suprised to find a German instead of the postman, knocking at the door while having breakfast in our imagined security.

Our captors treated us pretty well, and got us back as soon as it was reasonably safe to do so.We marched into Germany- that is to say into German occupied territory along a good road without a shell hole in it and scarcely a sign of the fierce fight our fellows had put up in order to hold the line.

The trip back to Karlsruhe, the distributing centre, took several days, and what I noticed on the journey, went a long way to destroy in my mind the vision of German efficiency. Perhaps all their best men were in the trenches, but those we came in touch with seemed fussy, and anything but efficient. This impression was confirmed by my subsequent observations during a years captivity. There were a number of grouses but nothing of any real seriousness.

Captivity, for an officer at any rate, is a strange experience to one who is fortunate as to avoid ill treatment. Imagine a great boy's school during the holidays, none of the boys having been sent home, and you get some idea of the "rags" and the fun and the emnities of the friendships, and all the thousand and one incidents of a community life but with no work to do. Add to this the fact that we were not allowed out except on walks like those of a school for ladies of the last generation- en crocodile- which only occurred about once a week.

The adults we saw when we were travelling, or were out on walks, looked as a rule, puffy and unhealthy, and had very little colour. Not having been in Germany in the pre war days, I cannot say if this is normal or not. The little children in Baden looked fat and rosy, but in the Harz they looked peaky. The children between 7 and 14 seemed to show the effects of war the most, all looking pasty faced and ill nourished. I never saw any hostility in the people's demeanour: a certain amount of curiosity sometimes, but in the main sheer apathy. The little children were an exception, an occasional piece of chocolate would quite win their hearts and the appearance of our crocodile on a walk was a sign for the gathering of all the children within reach.

After the armistice there was a certain distinct attempt at friendliness observable in the people I came across, despite which I cannot say that it was with any regrets that I boarded the Danish vessell Niels Ebbsen at Warnmunde, and set sail in half a gale for Copenhagen and home on 13th December 1918"

Any thoughts? Regards Steve.

[bernardmcilwaine]

Bernard,Perhaps another viewpoint. If you've checked out my thread Naval Recollections, about Major Alfred Ruston, apart from surviving the sinking of the Hythe. and avoided being torpedoed in the evacuation of Helles, he was also taken as a POW. Heres some of his own account of what happened in France.

"My first feeling was one of extreme suprise. I couldn't realise the possibility that I had been captured. I had thought that I may be wounded or knocked out, but not of being captured some distance behind the front line! It was in the big German breakthrough on 30th November 1917, when a good many of us were suprised to find a German instead of the postman, knocking at the door while having breakfast in our imagined security.

Our captors treated us pretty well, and got us back as soon as it was reasonably safe to do so.We marched into Germany- that is to say into German occupied territory along a good road without a shell hole in it and scarcely a sign of the fierce fight our fellows had put up in order to hold the line.

The trip back to Karlsruhe, the distributing centre, took several days, and what I noticed on the journey, went a long way to destroy in my mind the vision of German efficiency. Perhaps all their best men were in the trenches, but those we came in touch with seemed fussy, and anything but efficient. This impression was confirmed by my subsequent observations during a years captivity. There were a number of grouses but nothing of any real seriousness.

Captivity, for an officer at any rate, is a strange experience to one who is fortunate as to avoid ill treatment. Imagine a great boy's school during the holidays, none of the boys having been sent home, and you get some idea of the "rags" and the fun and the emnities of the friendships, and all the thousand and one incidents of a community life but with no work to do. Add to this the fact that we were not allowed out except on walks like those of a school for ladies of the last generation- en crocodile- which only occurred about once a week.

The adults we saw when we were travelling, or were out on walks, looked as a rule, puffy and unhealthy, and had very little colour. Not having been in Germany in the pre war days, I cannot say if this is normal or not. The little children in Baden looked fat and rosy, but in the Harz they looked peaky. The children between 7 and 14 seemed to show the effects of war the most, all looking pasty faced and ill nourished. I never saw any hostility in the people's demeanour: a certain amount of curiosity sometimes, but in the main sheer apathy. The little children were an exception, an occasional piece of chocolate would quite win their hearts and the appearance of our crocodile on a walk was a sign for the gathering of all the children within reach.

After the armistice there was a certain distinct attempt at friendliness observable in the people I came across, despite which I cannot say that it was with any regrets that I boarded the Danish vessell Niels Ebbsen at Warnmunde, and set sail in half a gale for Copenhagen and home on 13th December 1918"

Any thoughts? Regards Steve.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

steve hes an officer,most had a comfertable time in the camps,you only have to check the descriptions of most of the officers camps,and dont forget the more than regular parcels from home,some ordinary ORs got no parcels at all,the rest, when folks back home could afford it

[Boreenatra]

Hi Bernard. The class divide alive and well there then. Regards Steve.

[Paul Hodges]

I don't want to create a storm and I am sure that someone will correct me if I am wrong but I don't think that at the time of the Great War a "Geneva Convention" actually existed that dealt with the treatment of prisoners of war.

You are right - nothing in the Geneva Convention of the time - but the 1907 Hague Treaty to which all parties were signatories, did have provisions for the treatment of PoWs. (Part IV, Ch. 2, Articles 4 to 20). This is available online here.

[bernardmcilwaine]

You are right - nothing in the Geneva Convention of the time - but the 1907 Hague Treaty to which all parties were signatories, did have provisions for the treatment of PoWs. (Part IV, Ch. 2, Articles 4 to 20). This is available online here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sorry about the mistake on the G C,but going back to the treatment of POWs,some of the officers camps had tennis courts,billiard rooms,garden plots etc etc,and the source is not german,bernard