howitzer or gun

[stephen binks]

I am researching the 8th seige battery and the war diary mentions 6" BLC gun. I assume that because the word howitzer does not appear, then this would'nt be a howitzer battery? I have checked this information with the long trail information on siege batteries and it too doesnot mention howitzer.

Firstly how did they distinguish between a gun and a howitzer and secondly has anybody got the specifications of a 6" gun. I only seem to be able to find details on the 6" howitzer.

Thank you for any help offered

Steve

[CSMMo]

Howitzers are capable of high angle fire.

Guns are not.

Mike

[doogal]

Howitzers are capable of high angle fire.

Guns are not.

Mike

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why the name "howitzer"?

regards

doogal

[Alan_J]

There was a thread not that long ago that covered this topic to a certain extent, see here.

Keep scrolling down the thread once opened, there is a post about howitzers and mortars have an angle of fire greater than 45 degs, guns do not.

Alan

[Alan_J]

The thread has some images, which aren't on this forum as yet - for the thread with the images on the archive, see this link.

Alan

[Alan_J]

Why the name "howitzer"?

regards

doogal

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Below, a definition of the origin of the word howitzer, just pulled it off the web so no other provenance than that (which sometimes for the web doesn't say much!): -

"A relatively short cannon that delivers shells at a medium muzzle velocity, usually by a high trajectory.

[Dutch houwitser, from German Haubitze, alteration of obsolete haufnitz, catapult, from Old Czech haufnice, probably from haufnÿ, catapult that slung many stones at once : hauf, group, heap (from probably from Middle High German hūfe, from Old High German hūfo) + -ny, n. suff.]"

Alan

[CSMMo]

Below, a definition of the origin of the word howitzer, just pulled it off the web so no other provenance than that (which sometimes for the web doesn't say much!): -

"A relatively short cannon that delivers shells at a medium muzzle velocity, usually by a high trajectory.

[Dutch houwitser, from German Haubitze, alteration of obsolete haufnitz, catapult, from Old Czech haufnice, probably from haufnÿ, catapult that slung many stones at once : hauf, group, heap (from probably from Middle High German hūfe, from Old High German hūfo) + -ny, n. suff.]"

Alan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ha! Now that's something I didn't learn in 22 years working with Howitzers. Thanks Alan!

[stephen binks]

Thank you for supplying not just the information but the useful link.....

My next question following on from this is does anybody know the specifications of a 6" BLC gun?

Steve

[Gary Samson]

Hi Steve,

Quick scan of a page from Ian Hogg's Allied Artillery of World War One.

Gary

Thanks for pointing out my oversight, Bill, more haste less speed! Have removed the attached image to avoid confusion.

Edited 18 May , 2005 by Gary Samson

[stephen binks]

Cheers Gary!

[bmac]

The information given is for a 6" BL Howitzer. You are asking about a 6" BLC Siege Gun.

Two batteries were equipped with these on October 1914 with adapted carriages. Officially introduced in June 1915 they were never officially made obsolete.

Date of intro 1902

Weight: ordance 5 tons, carriage 7 ton 1 cwt

Length: 172"

Max elevation: 24 degrees

Recoil: Hydro-spring

Ammunition: HE 100lb

Charge: 20lb 15oz Cordite MD (bag)

Max range: 14,200 yards

Muzzle velocity: 2130 f/sec

I will try to scan the photo later.

[bmac]

Photo of 6" BLC Siege Gun

[SPotter]

Pals,

This may sound a stupid question, for which I apologise in advance, but was there ever any difference in the way the projectile was delivered? A gun, and I presume a howitzer, fired a shell which was ejected through the barrel by a charge in the shell case which remained in the breech and had to be removed for the next shot. Was a mortar the same or was there any other way the projectile could be 'fired'?

A total amateur of artillery - Steve

[stephen binks]

Thank you for the Info Bill.

Regards

Steve

[Doc2]

Pals,

This may sound a stupid question, for which I apologise in advance, but was there ever any difference in the way the projectile was delivered? A gun, and I presume a howitzer, fired a shell which was ejected through the barrel by a charge in the shell case which remained in the breech and had to be removed for the next shot. Was a mortar the same or was there any other way the projectile could be 'fired'?

A total amateur of artillery - Steve

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Normally, the term "Mortar" is used with reference to a weapon loaded from the muzzle end. The Mortar Shell or "Bomb" has a fuze on its base which is lit off when the shell hits the bottom of the tube. Nothing is left in the tube to be extracted. Mortars are short-range, high trajectory, generally much lighter in weight than "guns" or "howitzers". Doc2

[terryb95]

Hi Steve. I'm researching 7th Siege Bty, the following entries in their War Diary relate in part to 8th SB.

16.10.14 6pm Unloading completed. Battery bivouacked in Hangar x. Orders received for 9.2 gun and personnel RGA and RE to return to England. 8th Siege Battery arrived from England. 2-6” guns, and 9.2” Howitzer – latter originally belonging to this Battery.

17.10.14 Drill. 6pm, Order re return of 9.2 gun to England, to stand fast.

18.10.14 Drill. (Continues each day until 21.10.14)

21.10.14 Orders received for 9.2 gun and personnel to return to England. 12.30pm, Orders received for this and 8th Siege Batteries to proceed by road to BOULOGNE via ABBEVILLE. Start put off till to-morrow on account of difficulty experienced by 8th Btty in getting coal.

22.10.14 6.15am. Column started in a downpour. 4pm, YVETUT 33 miles. 1st wagon arrived. 9pm, Last wagon arrived. Tractor of 2nd gun broke down at LANGEUETOT – 12 miles back. (This tractor was eventually sent to ROUEN, and the gun railed to BOULOGNE). Lt Symons ASC (Mechanical Transport Officer) accompanied column. Interpreter (Andre’ Chevallier, 2nd canonnier servant, 2nd Regiment d’Artillere Coloniale, Havre) joined battery.

23.10.14 9am 8th Battery left. 10.30am, 7th Battery left. SAINT SAENS, 25 miles much delay caused owing to having to send back lorries to tow-in broken down lorries (run out of coal and water) of 8th Battery. Very hospitably entertained by inhabitants.

24.10.14 2.30am, Gun arrived. Delivery pipe of tractor gave out soon after start. 2.45pm, Last Foden came in. 12noon, Repairs to tractor and getting up steam took till this time. NEUFCHATEL 3pm, Tractor arrived - coaled - left trailer to be put on train. FOURCAMONT 10pm, 24 miles. Battery arrived. Very hospitably entertained not withstanding late hour. Great watering difficulties on road.

25.10.14 6.10am, Battery left. 9am BLANGY, Arrived. MTO Officer stated bridge through town over river unsafe. Tractor and gun went round and crossed at GAMACHES. 6pm, ABBEVILLE. Arrived and bivouacked in station yard. 32 miles, day’s journey.

26.10.14 In going to coal a lorry (5ton) broke through rotten part of a bridge over the SOMME. It took an hour to get it out. 9.30am, Battery started. NEMPONT SIR FIRMIN 1739 Gnr R. Clark was accidentally run over by a steam lorry, and a leg very badly crushed. Taken temporally to MONTREUIL hospital.30 miles. 5.30pm, MONTREUIL. Battery arrived. Another 5 ton lorry broke through surface of a street – hauled out by tractor. Battery billeted.

27.10.14 Gnr R Clark taken by motor ambulance to BOULOGNE about 2am. Battery left for BOULOGNE. 3.30pm, Lorries arrived. About 22 miles. 8pm, Guns arrived parked in docks. Men billeted in a fishing shed. Officers at HOTEL du LOUVRE. Found here Lt Smithers with No.2 Gun, and Lt Pellew with ammunition.

28.10.14 Informed that 3 tractors were leaving AVONMOUTH on 31st.

29.10.14 Extra Foden joined battery to carry spare timber for platforms. Gnr R Clark died 28th. [35 year old Robert Clark, son of William and Isabella Clark, of 166, Alexandra Road, Gateshead, is buried in Boulogne Eastern cemetery].

30.10.14 Battery attended funeral of Gnr Clark, who was buried with 7 other soldiers in BOULOGNE cemetery.

31.10.14 Handed in and drew ammunition from AOD. Rounds with battery: 80 shrapnel, 80 lyddite per gun. Brake gear and new wheels for brakes fitted on guns. Store and platform wagons squared up.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

November 1914: The Battery finally gets into a firing position.

1.11.14 Brakes and wheels being fitted to guns. Specialists –practice. 3pm, Battery paraded at gun park for President POINCARE, but he did not come. Went on to DUNKIRK.

2.11.14 Brakes completed on one gun .

3.11.14 New tractors arrived and unloading. Orders arrived for battery to move as soon as possible to ST OMER for orders. Maj McCulloch and Capt Creswell went in car and reported for orders at GHQ and returned same afternoon. Brakes completed on second gun.

4.11.14 Battery and No. 2 gun 8 Battery started. 2 new tractors. Very bad hill out of BOULOGNE one gun stuck, and battery not over ridge before 11am. Reported to GHQ and ordered to billet for night at LOMBRES which place No. 2 gun at 11pm No. 1 gun at 2am. 25 miles. Wet afternoon and evening. 2Lt E.F.L.Minter ASC attached as Mech. Transport officer.

5.11.14 8.30am:Battery started - coaled at St OMER - great delay through truck not being hardy.3pm: Battery moved on - very greasy “pave” road - going bad - much traffic. Tractors could not leave middle of road. 11pm: No.1 gun arrived.

6.11.14 12.30am: No. 2 gun arrived. Battery billeted in an unfinished hospital- officers in private houses and a convent. One tractor sent off by order of GHQ to help 9.2 Howitzer whose tractor had apparently broken down.10am: No. 2 gun 8th Battery arrived. Supplies ie. bread and meat and vegetables brought locally for troops.

7.11.14 2 more 5 ton Fodens and 1 – 3 ton petrol lorry joined battery. Latter to convoy ammunition from ammunition depot to guns. 40 spades and 20 pick-axes obtained from AOD.

8.11.14 Cleaning up etc.

9.11.14 Drill etc. Capt Leeson and 3 RAMC left for BOULOGNE.

10.11.14 Men practiced digging trenches.

11.11.14 Drills. A second motor car – Vulcan – joined battery.

12.11.14 Drills etc.

13.11.14 Drills and repacking wagons.

14.11.14 Drills etc.

15.11.14 Capt Campbell and No. 2 gun 8th Battery left. Drills etc. A tractor in difficulties – extricated itself.

16.11.14 Eyebolt fitted on front of No.1 gun carriage.

17.11.14 Men made a pathway and a drying house at billets. Badly required on account of wet weather.

18.11.14 Drill – tractor No.1 gun sank badly in a road – other tractor had to be sent for and finally wound it out, after it had been jacked up by sinking jack.

19.11.14 Raining all morning. Ordered to send one gun only to LOCRE at 1pm. Ordered cancelled at 12.

20.11.14 Hard frost all night. 9.30am: Taube dropped 6 bombs. Reported that one civilian was killed and many windows broken. A Foden sent out to haul a strange one out of ditch. Later another sent to haul 4.7 gun 111 HB out of ditch. It went wrong road and got “ditched” itself so another was sent out, which succeeded in extricating it and the gun from their difficulties.

21.11.14 HQ 1st Corps arrived.

22.11.14 Nothing.

23.11.14 Orders arrived for one gun to proceed to LOCRE, started 1.30pm. 8.30pm: Arrived at position about ¾ mile S. of LOCRE. Tractor and gun “bedded down “ in farm yard, Fodens in lane leading to it, officers in a dairy, men in a loft. Attached to 5th Div II Corps GOCRA Brig Gen Headlam CB, DSO. Freezing hard all day..

24.11.14 Gun placed in position and concealed by 11 am.

25.11.14 Gun wheels raised on to planks, overhead cover erected, funk-pits dug.

26.11.14 Two rounds fired to test platform.No. 2 gun arrived. 8pm: No. 2 gun 8th Battery in position on road about ¼ mile towards LOCRE. Laying telephone cable to GOCRA’s HQ. Capt Campbell’s gun placed under Major McCulloch’s orders.

27.11.14 Only one round fired. Too misty for aerial observation. Gun 8th Battery fired one round. One of two observed.

28.11.14 Too misty for observation, airman did not go up, no shooting. No. 2 gun getting into position. Lt Pellew proceeded on a week’s leave to England.

29.11.14 Capts. Creswell and Crawford promoted to Major, Lts. Smithers and Pellew to Captain, according to English papers. Capt Campbell, 8th Battery promoted Major –ditto-.

30.11.14 Targets G and H engaged. No aerial observation Battery fired 27 and gun 8th Battery 10 rounds. [Ref. Map. BELGIUM “B” Series Sheet 28 S.W. 1/20,000 G = GAPAARD X Roads – 12,000yards H= GARDE-DIEU X Roads – 14000 yards]

Terry

West Aust