steve fuller Posted 16 May , 2005 Share Posted 16 May , 2005 Hi Pals Have a few questions re this man, as Ive not come across one like this before. He's a good friends relative. Have MIC & CWGC details: Pte 3670, 4916 & 241235 John Sutherland, 5th Gordons 2/Lt in 1/6th Lancs Fusiliers Date of entry 3/11/1916 BWM & VM, No Star KIA 21/3/1918 1. The 6 digits tells me he was still in a TF Btn early 1917, when renumbered. This tell me he was till a Pte in early 1917, even if he was still attached admisitratively, rather than in the field. Does this sound accurate? 2. Why two 4-digit numbers in the Gordons? 3. He attended Aberdeen Uni & was a teacher pre war (Tarves, Aberdeen or Stonehaven), which I imagine is why he was considered Officer Material. Is that likely to be correct in anyones experience? Where can I confirm this please? 4. It seems to me (on the surface) that there may be several publications that he may be mentioned in. He was a teacher, with a degree etc. Can anyone tell me where to look please? Thanks very much Pals. Look forward to any replies! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernardmcilwaine Posted 16 May , 2005 Share Posted 16 May , 2005 Hi Pals Have a few questions re this man, as Ive not come across one like this before. He's a good friends relative. Have MIC & CWGC details: Pte 3670, 4916 & 241235 John Sutherland, 5th Gordons 2/Lt in 1/6th Lancs Fusiliers Date of entry 3/11/1916 BWM & VM, No Star KIA 21/3/1918 1. The 6 digits tells me he was still in a TF Btn early 1917, when renumbered. This tell me he was till a Pte in early 1917, even if he was still attached admisitratively, rather than in the field. Does this sound accurate? 2. Why two 4-digit numbers in the Gordons? 3. He attended Aberdeen Uni & was a teacher pre war (Tarves, Aberdeen or Stonehaven), which I imagine is why he was considered Officer Material. Is that likely to be correct in anyones experience? Where can I confirm this please? 4. It seems to me (on the surface) that there may be several publications that he may be mentioned in. He was a teacher, with a degree etc. Can anyone tell me where to look please? Thanks very much Pals. Look forward to any replies! Steve <{POST_SNAPBACK}> hi steve,hes not listed as passing through the artist rifles otc nor edinburgh,london or inns of court OTCs and hes not listed with the N.U.T,allnegative but it narrows down the places to look,is there a list for aberdeen OTC,the 4th gordons came under them,one of his No could be his OTC number,bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fuller Posted 16 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 16 May , 2005 hi steve,hes not listed as passing through the artist rifles otc nor edinburgh,london or inns of court OTCs and hes not listed with the N.U.T,allnegative but it narrows down the places to look,is there a list for aberdeen OTC,the 4th gordons came under them,one of his No could be his OTC number,bernard <{POST_SNAPBACK}> thats superb Bernard. One of his brothes was in the 5th Gordons, but doesnt follow that he was too I suppose? Thanks for narrowing it down, its all useful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linge Posted 16 May , 2005 Share Posted 16 May , 2005 Steve If he attended Aberdeen University he should feature in the Aberdeen University Roll of Honour. Regards Pam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fuller Posted 16 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 16 May , 2005 Steve If he attended Aberdeen University he should feature in the Aberdeen University Roll of Honour. Regards Pam <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nice one Pam - would you happen to know if its on line, or do i need to physially get there to view it please? Thanks Pam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Bruce Posted 16 May , 2005 Share Posted 16 May , 2005 I think something like this - goes overseas with Gordons (probably TF) battalion as 3670, to 5th Gordons before Mar 17 and given a new 4 digit number, renumbered to a 6 digit number in Mar 17 and then commissioned. It is impossible to say where a man was when he was renumbered without a hugely detailed study of that particular regiment. He could have been serving in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd line of 5th Gordons or anywhere else. As long as he remained 'on the books' he would have been renumbered in the battalion series. Probable route to a commision was through an Officer Cadet Battalion in UK. By far the best source if you can get access is likely to be local newspapers - start with his obituary. If you are based in the SE these are available at the British Newspaper Library at Colindale. Jock Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linge Posted 16 May , 2005 Share Posted 16 May , 2005 Steve As far as I am aware it is not online. The Imperial war museum has a copy it is entitled; University of Aberdeen, Roll of Service in the Great War, 1914-19. I think that another forum member Dick Flory has a copy. Some months ago he did offer to search his collection of rolls for information for other members. I believe his kind offer is in the archived section of the forum under Reference Books - search for Rolls of Honour and you should come up with Dick's details. Pam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fuller Posted 16 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 16 May , 2005 I think something like this - goes overseas with Gordons (probably TF) battalion as 3670, to 5th Gordons before Mar 17 and given a new 4 digit number, renumbered to a 6 digit number in Mar 17 and then commissioned. It is impossible to say where a man was when he was renumbered without a hugely detailed study of that particular regiment. He could have been serving in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd line of 5th Gordons or anywhere else. As long as he remained 'on the books' he would have been renumbered in the battalion series. Probable route to a commision was through an Officer Cadet Battalion in UK. By far the best source if you can get access is likely to be local newspapers - start with his obituary. If you are based in the SE these are available at the British Newspaper Library at Colindale. Jock Bruce <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Jock. So, 2 different battalions before March 1917. that would make sense of the 2 4 digit numbers. Colindale is only an hour away, so will have to go for a drive methinks. Thanks again Jock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fuller Posted 16 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 16 May , 2005 Steve As far as I am aware it is not online. The Imperial war museum has a copy it is entitled; University of Aberdeen, Roll of Service in the Great War, 1914-19. I think that another forum member Dick Flory has a copy. Some months ago he did offer to search his collection of rolls for information for other members. I believe his kind offer is in the archived section of the forum under Reference Books - search for Rolls of Honour and you should come up with Dick's details. Pam <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thank you once again Pam, Ill try Dick Flory & see what happens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fuller Posted 17 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 17 May , 2005 Pam Dick turned up some superb info, so I iwe you a big thanks for pointing me in that direction. Even got a photo of him & you can see the family likeness! Very grateful to you Pam Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fuller Posted 17 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 17 May , 2005 Jock is VERY kindly working away on birth certificates & census entries for me too, so just a public THANK YOU to you too Jock. Lovely stuff mate Speak to you soon Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 10 June , 2005 Share Posted 10 June , 2005 Hi Steve, As I am researching all of the names inscribed on the Stonehaven War Memorial, and 2nd Lt John Sutherland is honoured on this Memorial, I would be most interested in making contact with your friend who is related to 2nd Lt John Sutherland. I have some information that I can share with him/her and would be most grateful if he/she could share with me as well. There is also a Stoker William Sutherland that is mentioned on the Stonehaven War Memorial which I have been unable to find any information on other than he was in the Royal Navy and was killed sometime during World War One. Considering how small Stonehaven was in the early 1900's I am guessing that he is most likely related to John. If you could pass this message onto your friend I would be most grateful. I can be contacted at thistleinn@shaw.ca . Thank You for reading my reply and I look forward to hearing back from either you or your friend in the near future. Bye for now! CHEERS, Jim Allan Victoria, B.C. CANADA Hi Pals Have a few questions re this man, as Ive not come across one like this before. He's a good friends relative. Have MIC & CWGC details: Pte 3670, 4916 & 241235 John Sutherland, 5th Gordons 2/Lt in 1/6th Lancs Fusiliers Date of entry 3/11/1916 BWM & VM, No Star KIA 21/3/1918 1. The 6 digits tells me he was still in a TF Btn early 1917, when renumbered. This tell me he was till a Pte in early 1917, even if he was still attached admisitratively, rather than in the field. Does this sound accurate? 2. Why two 4-digit numbers in the Gordons? 3. He attended Aberdeen Uni & was a teacher pre war (Tarves, Aberdeen or Stonehaven), which I imagine is why he was considered Officer Material. Is that likely to be correct in anyones experience? Where can I confirm this please? 4. It seems to me (on the surface) that there may be several publications that he may be mentioned in. He was a teacher, with a degree etc. Can anyone tell me where to look please? Thanks very much Pals. Look forward to any replies! Steve <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fuller Posted 11 June , 2005 Author Share Posted 11 June , 2005 Hi Jim Small world eh?!!! Of course Ill pass your info onto him & let him contact you directly. Im sure he'll be delighted to hear of Joh Sutherland, as the family didnt know anything about him until I started delving aound! John is the guy in question's dad's dad's brother guess that makes him his Gt Uncle? Consider it done Jim & thanks! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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