Douglas MacArthur`s trench raid

[PhilB]

I read that Douglas MacArthur, though a full colonel on the staff of the AEF, personally led the first US trench raid, casually dressed and carrying only a riding crop. His explanation was that he wished to demonstrate that he would not ask men to do what he personally was not prepared to do and to show that staff officers were not lacking in bravery. Many thought it wrong for a staff officer to risk himself unnecessarily - the men thoroughly approved. Personally, I think that the positive effect on morale much outweighed the risk involved. I`m going down in my dugout now. Phil B

[per ardua per mare per terram]

This was not unusual, as several senior officers took the same approach. Here’s the details of one British general who was killed leading his troops into battle.

Name: LUMSDEN, FREDERICK WILLIAM

Initials: F W

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Brigadier General

Regiment: General Staff

Unit Text: Commanding 14th Bde.

Secondary Regiment: Royal Marine Artillery

Secondary Unit Text: late

Age: 45

Date of Death: 04/06/1918

Awards: VC, CB, DSO and 3 Bars

Additional information: Croix de Guerre (France). Son of the late James Foot Lumsden (Indian Civil Service); husband of M. E. A. Lumsden, of Hampton Court Palace, Middlesex.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: III. D. 1.

Cemetery: BERLES NEW MILITARY CEMETERY

[PhilB]

Thanks, PAPMPT. I don`t seem to have a record of the action of 14 Bde on 4/6/18. What was the action into which he led them? As far as I can see he was in a trench at the time:-

Quote:-

He was awarded the Companion of the Bath in the King's Birthday honours list for 1918 but was killed in a forward trench on the night of the 3rd June 1918.

Phil B

[per ardua per mare per terram]

That will teach me to rely on memory! My recollection was of seeing a ‘deeds that thrill the empire’ type picture of him waving his men forward. But he is only one of the examples of senior officers leading from the front in both Wars.

[PhilB]

I`d be interested to hear of one killed in WW1 in front of the front line, which is where MacA was in this (and other) instances. Phil B

[per ardua per mare per terram]

I`d be interested to hear of one killed in WW1

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As MacArthur survived, I’ll not keep to that limitation: two at random Generals CJ Briggs at Nery and C Townsend at Kut were in the thick of it.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

What fascinates me more is that the army developed such a culture of leading from the rear. It was not acceptable in the Navy: Beatty and Jellicoe for example were exposed at Jutland. Maybe they should have shot a few generals ‘to encourage the others.’

[PhilB]

As MacArthur survived, I’ll not keep to that limitation: two at random Generals CJ Briggs at Nery and C Townsend at Kut were in the thick of it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You`ll have to enlighten me, PAPMPT! I`m not familiar with Briggs at Nery.(We didn`t have trench lines to go in front of then, did we?). When did Townsend get into No man`s Land at Kut? Phil B

[per ardua per mare per terram]

For me ‘in the thick of it’ does not depend on having trench lines. Briggs had remained with his brigade through the retreat and shared with them the exhaustion and the danger of that retreat, and was with them during bouts of fighting like Nery. Townsend was only at Kut because he had gone with his forces into no mans land and come out the other side. I selected these examples from the earlier part of the war as it seems that the American army and officers like MacArthur replicated the tactics and behaviour of the earlier years when they arrived at the front.

Even so, later in the war there were British senior officers who met your criteria of going in front of the trench lines, for example General Hugh Elles, who advanced with and commanded the Tank Corps at Cambrai in his Mk IV 'Hilda.'

[PhilB]

As I said, PAPMPT:-

I`d be interested to hear of one killed in WW1 in front of the front line, which is where MacA was in this (and other) instances. Phil B

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don`t doubt that Briggs stayed with his brigade (Where else would he be?) and I don`t know about Townsend`s perambulations, and I appreciate that Elles was sitting in an armoured vehicle at the time you mention but I`d still like to hear of a senior officer killed in front of the front! I`m not suggesting that they should have been there - they almost certainly shouldn`t - but it would be an indication that they thought along MacArthur`s lines! Phil B

[healdav]

MacArthur probably thought that no bullet would have the temerity to go anywhere near him.

Patton famously sat on the top of a tank in the St. Mihiel salient as the driver was afraid to go forward by himself.

No bullet would have dared to go near him!

They both met for the first and only time in the St. Mihiel salient. Both said that the other ducked as shells went over (Patton had no time at all for MacArthur).

[PhilB]

Seeing pictures of lines of men all ducking when a shell went by, I`d got the feeiling that it was an automatic reaction - something it was difficult not to do. Patton and MacA were probably of the Civil War school which called for officers to expose themselves & to show unflinching bravery under fire? I don`t imagine George has yet got over the manner of his death! Phil B