Pte Joseph Kenney

[mattreef]

The only information that I have about my Gt Grandfather in the war is taken from his grave. He is listed as fighting in the 1st Lincolnshire Btn - as I know he came from Cosby near Leicester I suspect thet he was in either 1/4th or 1/5th part of Lincoln and Leicester Brigade, North Midland Division. As he was 39 when he died and married with 4 daughters I guess that he was conscripted rather than a volunteer. He died on 25th Jan 1918 and is buried at Epehy Wood.

If anyone could provide any information about Joseph Kenney's military service, where he might have seen action and where he may have died I would be extremely grateful. I am planning to visit his grave at the end of this month with my family and it would be great to know more about his war.

[Doug Lewis]

mattreef

Information taken from SDGW CD Rom

Joseph Kenney Private 38931

1st Battalion Lincolnshire Regiment.

Born and Resident - Cosby Leics

Enlisted- Leicster

Died of Wounds 25/1/18

France & Flanders.

go here to download a copy of his M.I.C http://www.documentsonline.nationalarchive...&resultcount=12

Interestingly it records that he was serving with the Leinster Regiment

Have you read the message above this thread-

BE SURE TO READ THIS: if you are about to ask questions about how to find a soldier's service record, make sure you have first visited "Grandad's War" at The Long, Long Trail website. There's a link to it at top-left of this page. Be sure to read at least "The Basics", "Service Papers" and "Grandad's Medals". Then, if your questions remain unanswered, come back here.

Regards Doug

[mattreef]

Many thanks for the link Doug,

You've confirmed that he enlisted in Leicester... It is interesting that he is listed as serving with the Leinster regiment as he was of Irish parentage.

Sorry if I 'jumped in and asked' too hastily...I didn't know where to start with no medals or papers available - not even a photo. After the war his wife succumbed to the flu epidemic and the children were brought up by an aunt who clearly wasn't sentimental as she kept nothing!

[Doug Lewis]

mattreef

You didn't jump in hastily,I just thought you ought to have a look

If you download his M.I.C let us know what is on it, I would be interested to know.

Regards Doug.

[dave ricketts]

mattreef,

I was interested in the post, as Cosby is the adjacent parish to Narborough and Littlethorpe. I am sure that there were a number of Kenneys from the locality killed in the course of the war, although I need to check whether that was Cosby or Whetstone. (None residents of Narborough and Littlethorpe, that I do know.) I will have a look at my notes on the War Memorials and see.

Do you know what Joseph Kenney did as a civilian? I would hazard a guess he was in the shoe trade, the hosiery trade or a quarryman, if he didn't work on the land.

Good luck in your search,

Dave

[mattreef]

Dave,

The 1901 census lists him as a 'mechanic boot laster' so he was certainly in the shoe trade. I'm not aware that he changed trade before the war - seems unlikely.

He was definitely a Cosby man - 'Son of Albert and Anne Kenney, of Cosby; husband of Emily Annie Kenney, of Portland St., Cosby, Leicester.'

Thks,

Matt

[Steve Bramley]

as I know he came from Cosby near Leicester I suspect thet he was in either 1/4th or 1/5th part of Lincoln and Leicester Brigade, North Midland Division.

Hi Mattreef,

Do you mind if i ask you why you suspect the above?

He could have been a conscript certainly. But also if your suspicion is correct he may well have been a pre-war Territorial. Many of the original N.Midland Brigade men were 'getting on a bit'. If he was an 'original' he would have gone overseas on March 1st 1915.

The 1/5th Leicestershires were the 'county' Territorials, the 1/4th recruited from Leicester City.

These two Battalions eventually formed the 138th Brigade which included the 4th and 5th Lincolnshire Battalions.

In 1914 the Terriers were not obliged to fight overseas. Quite a few men did not sign the Imperial Service Order. These men stayed at home to form the second line Battalions (2/4th, 2/5th) which then formed the 2nd North Midland Division which did not go overseas until early 1917.

I have found that many Territorials from Lincolnshire, especially from the 2nd line battalions were transferred to the regular and service Battalions of that Regiment. Some, were even renumbered with 5 digit numbers.

Your avatar is the badge issued to the 4th and 5th (Territorial Force) Battalions of the Lincolnshire Regt. The regular and service Battalions had 'Egypt' written in the 'bar' across the middle.

It seems odd that his MIC has no mention of his service in the Lincolnshire Regiment? Maybe someone with more MIC experience can perhaps explain this?

Regards,

Steve.

[jim_davies]

I suspect it's a miss transcription on the online MICs

[dave ricketts]

Further to my earlier post, there are three Kenneys on the Cosby War Memorial: Ernest, James and Joseph, and one on Whetstone Memorial George W.

Looking at the Commonwealth War Graves Commission site it looks like James, who died in December 1914, was either a Regular or Reservist with the Leicestershire Regiment. I am not enough of an expert to know for certain whether a number of 7824 would prove he was a reservist, but I think it is likely. He too was a son of Albert and Anne, of Portland Street, so would be Joseph's brother, and another of matreef's relatives. Ernest has no recorded family linkage, at least from the CWGC site, and I note if you search the 1901 census for Kenney and Cosby there seem to be two families as there are two James Kenney's one aged 13 and one aged 14, both shoe rivetters.

A brief thought about whether Joseph volunteered. The Derby canvassers in the area seemed very persistent, and take-up from the married men was strong, at least from the evidence of surviving NA records for Narborough and Littlethorpe. The married men were all led to understand that they would be called up only after all the single men had been, so were pretty upset when the plans were formulated in early 1916 which changed that. In fact there was a local bye-election for Parliament in the spring of 1916, where an independent "married man's candidate" stood to protest. He didn't stop the coalition candidate but polled well. So I wouldn't be surprised if Joseph was a Derby man,

[Steve Bramley]

Dave,

You could well be right about him being a 'Derby Scheme' man, and he could also have been linked to the Terriers through the scheme.

Jim,

I think you are right as well

Steve.

[mattreef]

Steve,

Thanks for your post.

I was surprised when I first saw Joseph's grave listed him as serving with the 1st Bn Lincolnshire knowing that he came from near Leicester. The only connection I could see was the 138th Brigade 'Lincoln and Leicester'. I now see that there was also the 177th Brigade 'Second Lincoln and Leicester'.

If he were in either the 138th or the 177th would this qualify him to be listed as serving with 1st Lincolnshire?

Dave,

Thanks also for your research, I had no idea about his younger brother James!

This forum has been amazingly helpful...I really appreciate everyones input. Tku

Matt

[Steve Bramley]

Hi Matt,

There are many many possibilities and permutations involved in finding out how Joseph Kenney served with the 1st Battalion Lincolnshire Regt.

The main way would be to find out if his service records survive at the National Archives in Kew. Another would be to check the Medal Rolls at the same place.

Another source would be to look for any mention of him in the Local Newspapers of the period. He may have had a short obituary detailing his service.

I have examples of several men from the 2/5th Lincolns who were transferred to the 8th Gloucestershires and the Royal Warwickshire Regiment.

And later lots of men from London and the North East joining the Battalion!

Good Luck,

Steve.