Sgt_Hazell_Great_Grandson Posted 11 May , 2005 Share Posted 11 May , 2005 Could anybody kindly check the following. Sarah Hazell ( one or two l`s ) Head ? Alfred Hazell ( " ) Emma Hazell ( " ) Only know address 9 Absolum Road , Kensal Green, London. Thanks for your help, Regards, Roland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinglma Posted 12 May , 2005 Share Posted 12 May , 2005 Have you got rough dates for any of the above? regards mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt_Hazell_Great_Grandson Posted 12 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 12 May , 2005 Mike I think between 1885-1897. I have had alot of trouble pinning exact dates down.My main " mission " here is to try to identify my G.G.F. `s father as we have no name for him. Any help is greatfully received. Kind regards Roland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suegill Posted 12 May , 2005 Share Posted 12 May , 2005 Do you have any birth places or dates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt_Hazell_Great_Grandson Posted 12 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 12 May , 2005 Thanks Sue. We only know that they were born in London..we think ! Sara was Williams mother , he was born in 1870 so her birthdate would have been before say,1852 ? Not too much to go on here ! Roland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suegill Posted 12 May , 2005 Share Posted 12 May , 2005 Too many Hazells to narrow it down with the information that you have. Can't find them at the address you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt_Hazell_Great_Grandson Posted 12 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 12 May , 2005 Thanks for checking Sue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinglma Posted 12 May , 2005 Share Posted 12 May , 2005 As Sue says probably too many to be sure but this one did catch my eye on 1881 census. 1881 census Could you confirm that you are looking for a William Hazell with mother called Sarah? Who is Alfred? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 12 May , 2005 Share Posted 12 May , 2005 As Sue says probably too many to be sure but this one did catch my eye on 1881 census. 1881 census Could you confirm that you are looking for a William Hazell with mother called Sarah? Who is Alfred? Mike <{POST_SNAPBACK}> East Row is not far from Kensal Green, just south of the canal and east of Ladbroke Grove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt_Hazell_Great_Grandson Posted 13 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 13 May , 2005 I really thought this thread had died a death ! Never doubt the power of The Forum ! Sarah Hazell is the mother of William Hazell, my GGF. On his service papers i have her as his next of kin. There is no date but it is between 1885-1897 , his years of service in The Lancs Fusiliers more likley from when he joined in 1885. He went in at the age of 15, i would guess his father had died and money was tight and it seemed a good career move. On his papers it says he has one older brother Alfred and one sister Emma and the address is given as 9 Absolum Road, Kensal Green. Mike on your census link Williams age of 11 is correct for his date of birth 1870, Alfred is also an older brother. Lots of other children , one it seems born when Sarah was 57 !! I don`t have any more family history to check i am affraid. Looking better than a couple of days ago ! Thanks guys, Roland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinglma Posted 13 May , 2005 Share Posted 13 May , 2005 Roland I've been having another quick look at this and it is is far from straight forward. Based largely on conjecture I think this might be the right family. Like Myrtle I was struck by the location of the family on the 1881 census. I have since been struck by the discovery of a death certificate for an Edward Hazell in Chelsea in December 1881 aged 58. It seems likely that this is the head of household on the 1881 census. It would also fit neatly with Sarah being widowed at the time of William's attestation in 1885. However the age of the youngest children, born as you note, when Sarah Hazell was in her late 50's seems plain implausible. I have had a look at the original page and the transcription to the web is accurate. Could the youngest children actually be grandchildren? You would have to do a bit more digging to find out. Could it be that the 1881 census return was a slipshod piece of work by the enumerator? One can often confirm its accuracy by checking later census returns. However I cannot find this family on the 1891 census - though there are one or two listings which might be individuals. To tie this up a bit more you would need to find and order William's birth certificate to check the name of his father as Edward Hazell. There is no William Hazell listed on freebmd as born in Buckinghamshire in 1870. However this could be due to Freebmd being incomplete or it could be the place of birth is wrong on the 1881 census return. More questions than answers I know but it might provide food for thought. Regards Mike S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Clay Posted 13 May , 2005 Share Posted 13 May , 2005 However the age of the youngest children, born as you note, when Sarah Hazell was in her late 50's seems plain implausible. I have had a look at the original page and the transcription to the web is accurate. Could the youngest children actually be grandchildren? right] Roland As Mike suggests, the children listed below Alfred (32) and Mary (31) could be grandchildren - and it occurs to me that they are Alfred & Mary's kids (ie Mary is daughter in law, not daughter?). Anyway just my 2 pennorth - and more food for thought/avenues to explore. Good luck in your search Regards Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt_Hazell_Great_Grandson Posted 13 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 13 May , 2005 Thanks Mike and Jim. Always good to have other peoples ideas and input. Looking at Williams service papers it says he has one older brother , Alfred and one sister. I thought the name was Emma but looking again it could be Laura.The photocopy of his service papers is not always perfect.Laura is the same age as William..his twin sister ?? So it seems : Edward and Sarah , married. Alfred , son married to Mary. William and Laura , twins , son and daughter Albert , Alice , James and Harry, Grandchildren. This all seem to add up ! One other snippit , on the 1881 census Edward is listed as being a carman.On the copy of the 1901 census William is also listed as a carman.He left the Lanc. Fus in 1897.A family occupation maybe ! Roland. p.s. Is a Carman a carriage driver of sorts ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Clay Posted 13 May , 2005 Share Posted 13 May , 2005 p.s. Is a Carman a carriage driver of sorts ? Roland This question has been raised on various family history forums - the consensus of replies as I recall is that a carman was the horse transport equivalent of today's white van man, a driver working for a general delivery firm. Rgds Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt_Hazell_Great_Grandson Posted 13 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 13 May , 2005 Thanks. Any idea how one would go about finding and ordering a birth certificate from 1870 ? Roland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinglma Posted 13 May , 2005 Share Posted 13 May , 2005 Roland Before ordering the certificate you will need to find the reference for it. This can be done in a number of ways. 1) via FreeBMD - a website where Birth, marriage and Death registrations have been listed by volunteers. These indexes are not yet complete. If you find the registration you would then have to order the certificate via 2) or 4) 2) in person via the Family Record Centre in Islington. They hold the original indexes which you can search for a reference. You can then place an order for the certificate over the counter. Normally takes four working days to arrive. 3) from a pay-per-view website such as 1837online or BMDindex. These indexes are complete and in the case of the former you can order the certificate via the website. Not tried so no idea as to timescales. 4) on the General Records office website. You will need to find the registration first. The cost of a certificate is normally £7.00 which means you will want to be sure you have the correct William Hazell before you order it. To identify the correct person you will need to know the registration district of the birth. What place of birth does it give for William Hazell on 1901? Does it tally with Buckinghamshire on 1881? Does his service papers give a place of birth (it may be on the medical history)? Hope this helps Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 13 May , 2005 Share Posted 13 May , 2005 Roland Once you've identified the correct certificate, it can be ordered online via www.gro.gov.uk and in my experience, they normally turn up within the week. But as Mike says, it's important to confirm that you have the right one before ordering! Good luck SN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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