J T Gray Posted 6 May , 2005 Share Posted 6 May , 2005 Hoping someone can help, please? This one has bothered me for a while. My great grandfather, James Sandeman, was an engineer of the Den Line, sailing out of Dundee. He died of tubercular peritonitis in 1916, according to family legend having been taken ill at sea and brought into Liverpool docks from where he was brought home to die. However he doesn't appear on any list of Merchant Navy casualties I can find, he is not on his village war memorial, not on CWGC and not listed at the Scottish National War Memorial in Edinburgh. It is several years now since I tried to find his records - can anyone advise as to whether Merchant Navy records from this time survive? Or as to why he is not recorded as a casualty? I know of at least two other people who died of disease (one influenza and one pneumonia) so it can't be that, though I wonder whether he had been discharged before he died... I'm not sure about the family legend as for years my grandmother was so tight lipped on the subject that I thought he'd contracted syphilis in a port somewhere and died of that! Then I found she'd had his death certificate all along... Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 6 May , 2005 Share Posted 6 May , 2005 Adrian This man would not qualify for commemoration by CWGC as he died of illness. The Mercantile Marine was one of the Recognised Civilian Organisations which did qualify for such commemoration but only if they met the additional qualifications of dying on duty and of a war cause or the increased threat brought on by war. From what you say, this man died of natural causes and not due to any war cause. That is, at least, why you will not find him in CWGC's database. These additional qualifications, of course, did not apply to serving military personnel who qualified for commemoration simply by dying within the qualifying dates - of any cause and in any location - on duty or off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J T Gray Posted 6 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 6 May , 2005 Well that's one mystery solved. Thank you Terry! Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 7 May , 2005 Share Posted 7 May , 2005 Do you know the ships your great grandfather was on, Adrian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J T Gray Posted 9 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 9 May , 2005 Do you know the ships your great grandfather was on, Adrian? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Off the top of my head, Kath, so apologies for any howlers: Den of Airlie Den of Ruthven Den of Glamis Den of Ogil possibly Den of Crombie (have you had a bright idea?) Supposed to have reached a high rank in the line, but we've never been able to find someone to decipher the scrambled egg on his sleeve, and the Den Line's successor company have no personnel records, worse luck. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 9 May , 2005 Share Posted 9 May , 2005 Crew Lists for these ships should show his Certificate No. If you have the ships' Official Numbers, found in Lloyd's Registers, you can see online if the Memorial University of Newfoundland: http://www.mun.ca/ have the Crew Lists and Logs. See the Maritime History Archive, Shipping Records: http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/shipping.php Or email them with your request. The Ships List is an excellent source also. http://www.theshipslist.com/ Do you know this site? - http://www.dmcsoft.com/tamh/article.php?articleid=24 OR try the National Archives. A Research Guide is on:http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=131 "7. Engineers: Certificates" I expect you know BURRELL's history of the Den Line. This link does say he used Company records:http://worldshipsociety.org/publications/books-wss-history.php Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J T Gray Posted 9 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 9 May , 2005 Is this one of your hobbies, Kath? I am familiar with some of those sources but there are one or two there I haven't come across - I certainly must try emailing Newfoundland, and also read that one on Engineers records. I have the records for his 2nd Class certificate, but he took the 1st class Exam in Calcutta so not so easy to get hold of! I have the Den Line book, and I wrote to Barrie and Nairn - they could not help me BUT they were kind enough to enclose a Den Line cap band in their reply! I'll let you know how I get on! Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 9 May , 2005 Share Posted 9 May , 2005 Kath, I think your avatar is very impressive, but should'nt the balls be coloured red? It looks remarkably like a snooker pack at the start of play. Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 10 May , 2005 Share Posted 10 May , 2005 They're not 'balls' - they're bezants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 10 May , 2005 Share Posted 10 May , 2005 Kath, I stand corrected! My apologies. Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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