blue Posted 4 May , 2005 Share Posted 4 May , 2005 A Friend of mine has just brought round a tin of medals, lent to him by his boss. they are awarded to Captain Douglas Kindersley KIA 22/6/17 ( now here's the good bit!) They comprise of MBE, DSO, Croix de Guerre, 1415 trio & minatures. Also included is a Order of St John Baliff badge & star, and a brass plaque stating " Awarded to Capt Douglas Kindersley for Conspicious gallantry on Vimy ridge April 9th 1917" I have done basic internet KIA research,He was KIA 22nd june 1917 but could do with some help fillling in the gaps. Many thanks Blue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 4 May , 2005 Share Posted 4 May , 2005 Medal Index Card: http://www.documentsonline.nationalarchive...1&resultcount=1 Highland Light Infantry attached King's Own Scottish Borderers London Gazette : 11-9-1914 3rd Battalion, The Highland Light Infantry, Douglas Kindersley to be Second Lieutenant (on probation). Dated 12th September, 1914. London Gazette, 14-11-1914 3rd Battalion, The Highland Light Infantry. The undermentioned Second Lieutenants to be Lieutenants: — Douglas Kindersley. Dated 1st September, 1914. London Gazette, 14-7-1917, awarded Crois de Guerre Captain Douglas Kindersley, Highland Light Infantry, Special Reserve, attached King's Own Scottish Borderers. Any help? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 4 May , 2005 Share Posted 4 May , 2005 No doubt the rest of his awards are recorded under his full name. If you put in Kindersley to the London Gazette online it brings up 81 entries. Happy hunting! http://www.gazette-online.co.uk/archiveSea...e=0&Referer=WW1 Rgds Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 4 May , 2005 Share Posted 4 May , 2005 Yep, spotted that! Now shall i do it or does Blue fancy it! Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted 4 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 4 May , 2005 No doubt the rest of his awards are recorded under his full name. If you put in Kindersley to the London Gazette online it brings up 81 entries. Happy hunting! http://www.gazette-online.co.uk/archiveSea...e=0&Referer=WW1 Rgds Tim D <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted 4 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 4 May , 2005 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks guys i tried his full name Douglas Cumming Paget Kindersley but nothing, so 81 entrys it is !!!!!!!! BLUE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 4 May , 2005 Share Posted 4 May , 2005 Birth registration : Douglas Cumming P(aget) Kindersley, Sep 1873, Halifax. London Gazette, 24-9-1914 SPECIAL RESERVE OF OFFICERS. RESERVE UNITS. The undermentioned dates of appointment are substituted for those which appear against the names of the officers specified in Gazettes published between the 5th August and 15th September, 1914: 3rd Battalion, The Highland Light Infantry Second Lieutenant D. Kindersley. Dated 14th August, 1914. (This effectively changes the date of his promotion to 14th August 1914 from 12 September 1914. Dates of Promotions were important to determine seniority between ofiicers of like rank) London Gazette, 24-10-1916 High. L.I.—Capt. D. Kindersley, Spec. Res., to be acting Maj. whilst empld. as Maj. on Hd. Qrs. of a Bn., K.O. Sco. Bord. 24th July 1916. London Gazette, 15-3-1917 K.O. Sco. Bord.—Capt. D. Kindersley, High. L.I., Spec. Res., relinquishes the acting rank of Maj. 2nd Feb. 1917. Can't find his promotion to Captain, or his DSO & MBE. The DSO and MBE could have been after the war, of course. The promotion to Captain would have been between November 1914 and October 1916. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesmessenger Posted 5 May , 2005 Share Posted 5 May , 2005 His DSO was gazetted on 4/6/17. Since this was in the Birthday Honours there was no citation. The Order of the British Empire was not instituted until June 1917 and the first honours list for it not published until September 1917. I therefore doubt whether the MBE belonged to Kindersley. Charles M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted 5 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 5 May , 2005 His DSO was gazetted on 4/6/17. Since this was in the Birthday Honours there was no citation. The Order of the British Empire was not instituted until June 1917 and the first honours list for it not published until September 1917. I therefore doubt whether the MBE belonged to Kindersley. Charles M <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Charles thanks for the reply why was a DSO given in the birthday honours list ?was it therefore not awarded for gallantry? the plaque with the medal says awarded for conspicuous gallantry April 9th 1917 could this be for the croix de guerre (this has a MIDemblem on it as well ) As he was KIA 22nd june 1917 could the MBE be a postumoius award. Pardon my ignorance in this matter Many thanks BLUE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 5 May , 2005 Share Posted 5 May , 2005 I mentioned above that the MBE &/or DSO could have been after the War. Since he was KIA, they wouldn't, of course. Sorry. Forgot the mention of his death. My excuse : Lousy head cold (Though it does seem to improve once I'm away from work...) Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesmessenger Posted 6 May , 2005 Share Posted 6 May , 2005 Blue A decoration gazetted in the New Year or Birthday Honours List usually reflected an outstanding performance over a period of time rather than a specific act of gallantry. The plaque may well therefore refer to the croix de guerre. I still have my doubts about the MBE. The general rule on posthumous awards (VC, Albert Medal, Mention in Despatches excepted) was that the individual had to be alive when his CO made the initial recommendation. In the case of the Order of the British Empire the award was for services of a non-combatant nature, which does not seem to fit in with Kindersley's record. Furthermore, in the first list gazetted (in August 1917 - I was incorrect in stating September in my previous post) there were only 320 military included, the vast majority being civilians. The only way that you can verify one way or the other is by trawling through the London Gazette. Charles M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesmessenger Posted 6 May , 2005 Share Posted 6 May , 2005 Further to my last post, I have had another thought that the MBE might have been awarded to another member of the Kindersley family. Lo and behold a Katherine Emma Kindersley was made an MBE in the Birthday Honours 4/6/18 for services as the organiser of the YWCA Munition Girls' Clubs. Charles M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 6 May , 2005 Share Posted 6 May , 2005 Great thinking, Charles. Only a guess, but the plaque may well be for the Croix de Guerre. Just got to find his promotion to Captain now. Blue might have to do some work over the weekend... Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 7 May , 2005 Share Posted 7 May , 2005 Major Douglas Kindersley. HLI Born 8 Aug 73, the son of H W S Kindersley Educated at Edingurgh Academy (name given as Douglas Cumming Paget Kindersley) Entered Army Aug 14 2nd Lieut., 3rd HLI, 1914 Lieut, 1915 Capt, 1915 Adjutant Temporary Major, 1917 KIA 22 Jun 17 DSO, 1917 CdeG, 1917 Despatches twice (1916 and 1917) 1914-15 Star, BWM, Vict Medal Married to Ida Maud, daughter of William Tyler Sources: The Distinguished Service Order 1886-1923; War Supplement to Edinburgh Academy Register. Regards. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted 9 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 9 May , 2005 Many thanks everyone .I just need a little more to complete the picture Can anyone help me with the where-a-bouts of the 2nd bn KOSB ON THE 22ND OF JUNE 1917 The day he died and also the action the 3rd battalion HLI was involved in on the 9th April 1917. Big ask i know but if you dont ask!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 9 May , 2005 Share Posted 9 May , 2005 9th April 1917 was the Easter Monday Offensive at Arras (where and when my great-uncle stopped a machine-gun bullet or two with his name on), The British attacked east and south of Arras, while the Canadians attacked Vimy Ridge to the northwest. The 3rd Highland Light Infantry were actually the main Reserve Battalion of the Regiment and these never left England. He would have been with the 2nd Kings Own Scottish Borderers at Arras, I would think. The 13th Brigade of 5th Division, in which 2/KOSB were, accompanied the 2nd Canadian Division in the Vimy Ridge attack as a Support Brigade, so that would both explain his presence and the award of a French/Canadian medal. 5th Division were still in the area of Arras in mid-June 1917. They were at the capture of Oppy Wood on the 28th June 1917. Tea calls! More later. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 9 May , 2005 Share Posted 9 May , 2005 Link to a WFA article by a man in the Brigade and there on the day of the 9th April 1917... http://www.westernfront.co.uk/thegreatwar/.../nisbetvimy.htm Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 9 May , 2005 Share Posted 9 May , 2005 The 2nd Canadian Division's 4th and 5th Brigades were in the centre of the Vimy Ridge initial attack with their objective as the "Red Line" near Les Tilluels beyond the German Front Line. On reaching the Red Line the 13th Brigade (including 2/KOSB) and Canadian 6th Brigade were to "leapfrog" the 4th and 5th and continue the assault past Hill 135 and Thelus and on past the "Blue Line" to the final objective at the "Brown Line" between Vimy and Farbus. That was the plan, anyway. And it worked.... and was even exceeded. 13th Brigade fanned out over the crest of Vimy Ridge and attacked the Prussian Infantry beyond. The advance was assisted by eight tanks but the advancing infantry quickly outpaced them and the tanks were not of any significant use. The swift advance of the Canadians and 13th Brigade meant that the whole regimental staff and commander of the 3rd Bavarian Infantry Regiment were captured. The War Diary of 6th Canadian Brigade who fought alongside 13th Brigade can be found HERE Hope this helps, Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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