Battle of Messines 7 June 1917

[Aaron Nelson]

Hi Pals,

Have recently dicovered a relative of my wifes was killed on that momentus day in June 1917 at Messines. He was part of the 3rd battalion of the 3rd New Zealand rifle Brigade. Does anyone have any idea on what this Battalion was up to on the day and what actions they took part in. Also, whats a good couple of books readily available in Libraries to read up on this battle.

Thanks all for any help advice you can give.

regards Aaron.

[Peter Beckett]

Aaron,

a good book on the Messines battle is: Pillars of Fire by Ian Passingham

I will get it off the shelf and see if the mob you are interested gets a mention

Peter

[Mat McLachlan]

I'll also check a couple of references and report back.

Cheers,

Mat

[Peter Beckett]

Aaron,

New Zealand Division (Petit Douve Farm)

Major General Sir Andrew Russell

3rd NZ Rifle Bde (Brig Gen H T Fulton)

1/NZ Rifle Btn, 2/NZ Rifle Btn, 3/NZ Rifle Btn, 4/NZ Rifle Btn.

Listed in Pillars of Fire, Appendix 1, Page 196

Infantry Listing page35

The 3 corps allotted for the operation were (north to south)

X 23rd, 47th (London)and 41st Divisions designated as assault with 24th as Reserve

XI 19th, 16th & 36th (Ulster) Divisions assault with 11th Div as reserve

II Anzac 25th, New Zealand & 3rd Australian Divisions designated as the assault divisions with the 4th Australian Division as reserve

Will continue the search

Peter

[Greenwoodman]

From Conan Doyle's "1917"

The 3rd Australian Division was on the extreme right of the attack.

"Upon the immediate left of the Australians was the New Zealand Division (Russell), which had done so splendidly at the Somme. Their Rifle Brigade had been given the place of honour exactly opposite to Messines, and by eight o'clock they had occupied the village and were digging in upon the farther side. Thirty-eight machine-guns and a number of prisoners were the trophies of their advance. There was no severe fighting, so well had the mines and the guns together had done their work; but the men who stormed the village found numerous cellars and dug-outs still occupied, into which they swiftly penetrated with bayonet or bomb. In one of these regimental headquarters was found a message from General Von Laffert ordering the 17th Bavarian Regiment to hold the village at all costs. It is certainly extraordinary how these unfortunate and gallant Bavarians were thrust into every hot corner, and if the reason lies in the fact that their prince Rupprecht had the honour of commanding the German Army of Flanders, then it is an honour which will leave its grievous trace upon his country for a century to come. It is an extraordinary historical fact that the Bavarians, who were themselves overrun and crushed by the conquering Prussians in 1866, should have paid without demur the enormous blood tribute to their conquerors in a cause in which they had no direct interest, since no annexation of Briey metals or Belgian lands would bring prosperity to Bavaria.

The Losses of the New Zealanders in their fine advance were not heavy, but they had a number of casualties that evening and next morning in their newly consolidated position, which included unfortunately Brigadier-General Brown, one of the finest officers in the force, who was killed by a burst of shrapnel"

A little flowery, and with some inaccuracy, but it gives a flavour of what the NZ Division were about.

[Aaron Nelson]

Hey all,

Thanks so far for all the speedy responses, thats awesume and certainly gives me something to start work on. By the looks of it his unit was part of the spearhead of the infantry attack and it looks like he may have been killed in the village itself.

Any more info people have would be great.

cheers Aaron.

PS, According to Conan Doyles 1917, yes we did do a damn good job at the Somme...........my Great Great Uncle did his best their, and he still lies there somewhere today...never buried..bless him.

[Peter Beckett]

Map of Phase two and ground to be captured on 7th June.

Map courtesy of CEW Bean ANZAC to Amiens 1946

Peter

[Peter Beckett]

Aaron,

extract of Trench map 28SW4 Ploegsteert date 01041917

If you want a higher resolution then PM me and I will send it across the Tasman

Peter

[Aaron Nelson]

Thanks to all thats awesume stuff !!!

I can get my teeth into a new project now.

Best regards Aaron.

[frie]

Aaron,

remarks on the map by Cew Bean...

Getting more accuracey.

The Nz - division attacked Messines and partly Wytschaete.

The Aust.Division attecked on territory of Warneton.

The 25th division attacked only on territory of Wytschaete

The 36th division attacked only on territory of Wytschaete.

The 16th division attacked only on territory of Wytschaete.

The X corps attacked partly on Wytschaete and Voormezele

So, you can only be sure that he died at Messines when you are very sure of his position in the attack.

As you see there were 3 divisions who attacked Wytschaete. Wytschaete was the most important target to take, due to its position facing the south of Ypres. The battle of Paschendaele was not possible without taking Wytschaete. In the attack of 7june Messines was one of the targets not the most important...

And as you may know, many British soldiers died by British artillery.

[Aaron Nelson]

Hi Frie,

Yes, all good points and I understand what your saying by not to jump to an early conclusion. I was not aware that many British Soilders died due to friendly artillery, can you expand on that for me, perhaps expalining how that terrible accident occurred at Messines.

thanks Aaron.