KOYLI badge

[Moonraker]

The military badges carved in the hillside west of Salisbury are well-known, but what isn't offer realised is that during WWI, a dozen or so more were carved, a couple being of artistic merit, the others being little more than graffiti; these were allowed to become overgrown. One very modest badge was, apparently, that of the King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry (it doesn't show up very well in contemporary postcards). Above the bugle/horn and letters KOYLI appear the initials "M B" (which are the most conspicuous part of the design). Any ideas what these indicate? And do any KOYLI historians know which battalion (almost certainly a service one) was based at Fovant?

[PhilB]

12 Bn (Service) (Miners) Pioneers) KOYLI went to Fovant Oct 15 till 6/12/15. MB could be Miners` Battalion? Phil B

[Max]

It could be Minden Battalion (51st) which would be the 1st Bn KOYLI but I think that the nearest the 1/KOYLI got to Salisbury during the Great War was Hursley Park near Winchester. Miners Battalion sounds more likely.

Andy

[doogal]

Hi Terry,

I'm intrigued - apart from the Vale of the White Horse and a couple of the larger (and more explicit) historical carvings, I wasn't aware of any other carvings - could you suggest any good links if this is OK?

thanks

doogal

[Moonraker]

Thanks for the replies; I agree that Miners Battalion is the more likely explanation, as, it was actually based at Fovant. Given it was a Pioneers unit, it's surprising its carving was so small and modest compared with the works of arts of other units. But perhaps, apart from training for active service its members were busy putting the newly-built camp to rights - there were Parliamentary Questions about the state of the parade grounds.

See www.fovantbadges.com, the website of the revitalised society responsible for the badges' upkeep, which is almost a Forth Road bridge operation. Maintenance was once done by volunteers, but is now done by professionals at some expense. The original badges were more detailed.

www.hows.org.uk/personal/hillfigs/fovant/fbs.htm also describes the figures and the webiste covers many others, including the Kiwi carved by New Zealanders at Sling (Bulford) in 1919 and the Australian so-called "Rising Sun" badge at Codford. There are quite a few lesser "White Horses" in Wiltshire, including a "lost" one at Rockley, near Marlborough and a brand-new one near Devizes.

(Tried to add this as a fast reply, but had trouble after clicking on the box - perhaps part of the same problem reported by members yesterday under chit-chat?)

[Steven Broomfield]

Given it was a Pioneers unit, it's surprising its carving was so small and modest compared with the works of arts of other units.

May sound silly, but the KOYLI badge was a very small badge - maybe they were keeping to scale?

[Moonraker]

Don't think this was the case. It was about one-twentieth the size of the Australian (so-called) "Rising Sun" badge, and those of the 6th City of London Rifles and YMCA badges.

[Max]

Don't think this was the case. It was about one-twentieth the size of  the  Australian (so-called) "Rising Sun" badge, and those of the 6th City of London Rifles and YMCA badges.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it probably demonstrates a Yorkshiremans natural reserve in blowing our own trumpet (excuse the pun).

Andy

[PhilB]

I think it probably demonstrates a Yorkshiremans natural reserve in blowing our own trumpet (excuse the pun). 

Andy

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As, I thought, always exemplified by Sir Frederick Trueman!

Phil B (Lancastrian)

[Max]

As, I thought, always exemplified by Sir Frederick Trueman!

                                                          Phil B (Lancastrian)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unfortunately, Freddie Trueman is as Yorkshire as you are. He was born at his grandmothers house which was over the border in Nottinghamshire (allegedly)

I would like to thank Terry Crawford for posting this thread as I now have some insight into where 2 of my Great Uncles, who were with the 12/KOYLI, were based.

Thanks

Andy

[PhilB]

Unfortunately, Freddie Trueman is as Yorkshire as you are. He was born at his grandmothers house which was over the border in Nottinghamshire (allegedly) 

Andy

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Who`s going to tell Freddie he isn`t a Yorkshireman? Phil B

[Moonraker]

After a session in the play area I think I can now attach a photo of the badges, probably taken just after the end of WWI. The three large badges can still be seen, though the Fovant Badges Society is reluctantly having to let the YMCA fade away because of the high costs of upkeep of the others. All those to the right have long gone. What I have assumed is the KOYLI badge is below right of the so-called "Australia Rising Sun" and to the right of an animal which I think relates to the "Chinese dragon" of the Royal Berkshires, whose 9th battalion have also carved their unit name. Inside the 6 C L R box were added "ity", "ondon" and "ifles", but these embellishments have long gone.

The Fovant Badges Society is always keen for new members and donations and holds a drumhead service each summer.

[doogal]

Hi Terry,

I think there's a day out for me here. I had no idea that these even existed.

thanks

doogal

Edited 4 May , 2005 by doogal

[Moonraker]

Emboldened by my success in sending the last pic, I'm now attempting a crop of what I think is the KOYLI badge. (If I'm wrong, I shall apprehensively await the reprimands; and it'll be good thing I'm in PC limbo land tomorrow (funnily enough, driving past the badges).

[Moonraker]

I have adapted my file listing the various badges for inclusion in this reply box. Additions and corrections welcome.

All were originally cut during the Great War, except where otherwise stated. "East" is "left" on photographs, "west" is to the right.

EXTANT IN 2001:

map of Australia (cut by October 1917 at Compton Chamberlayne; in 2001 the Fovant Badges Society reluctantly decided it could no longer maintain this carving)

Royal Wiltshire Yeomanry (cut c1950)

YMCA (in 2001 the Fovant Badges Society reluctantly decided it could no longer maintain this carving)

6th City of London Regiment (two versions cut in 1916)

Australian Commonwealth Military Forces (cut between February and October 1917) wrongly called the "rising sun" – actually a trophy of swords and bayonets; at the time of the Great War a photographer's name "BAILEY IVI…" was marked immediately under this badge

Royal Corps of Signals (cut 1970)

Wiltshire Regiment (cut 1950)

London Rifle Brigade (cut 1916)

8th City of London Regiment (Post Office Rifles) (cut April 1916)

Devonshire Regiment (cut after February 1917)

7th City of London Regiment )_ (at Sutton Mandeville; in 2001 the Royal Warwickshire Regiment ) Fovant Badges Society reluctantly

decided it could no longer maintain these carvings

LOST:

possible initials "??P" east of map of Australia

?AN to west of map of Australia

Royal Army Service Corps (not seen in any photograph; "Royal" was not included in the Corps title until November 1918; any badge would have been very ornate; confused with RAMC badge?)

possible badge east of RAMC badge

four-legged animal (dingo?) "reversed out" close to RAMC badge (ie animal's body is turfed, with chalk background)

Royal Army Medical Corps east of YMCA badge (cut before February 1917)

square close to RAMC badge

initials P O R (Post Office Rifles) close to square

Red Cross (said to have been made by Australian patients, possibly an embellishment of the RAMC badge)

7th City of London Regiment symbol said to have been cut next to that the 6th CLR, before being recut at Sutton Mandeville, but is not visible in photographs; "9th" (could be 7th?) appears between 6th CLR and ACMF badge in photographs taken before June 1917

Machine Gun Corps - no photographic evidence

four-legged animal looking over shoulder: the "Chinese Dragon" of the 9th Royal Berkshire (under ACMF badge)

King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry (with "M B" (Miners’ Battalion?) above French horn)

9th Royal Berks[hire Regiment] - later the 37th Training Reserve Battalion (title)

35th T[raining] R[eserve] [battalion] (title), with faint "R" to east of "35"

37th T[raining] R[eserve] [battalion] (title) (all TR badges cut after March 1917)

cross & crown - possibly Queen Victoria's Rifles(cut before March 1917) part of animal's body

kangaroo (cut before February 1917) )

35th Training Reserve Battalion – Drums (between Post Office Rifles and Devonshire Regiment badges)

Voluntary Aid Detachment (possibly carved in 1919, but no photographic evidence)

[RichardH]

Theres a film of some of the volunteers at work in 1963 maintaining these on the Pathe News site, and another clip from 1932-

http://www.britishpathe.com/product_displa...archword=fovant

Interesting stuff

Regards

Richard

[Max]

Who`s going to tell Freddie he isn`t a Yorkshireman?    Phil B

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Me, on a flight to Singapore

[Max]

Emboldened by my success in sending the last pic, I'm now attempting a crop of what I think is the KOYLI badge. (If I'm wrong, I shall apprehensively await the reprimands; and it'll be good thing I'm in PC limbo land tomorrow (funnily enough, driving past the badges).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello Terry

Good work. That is definately the right one....I am surprised at the prominence of the MB over the bugle and rose. This is definately a must see.

Andy

[Moonraker]

What I didn't mention when I started this topic is that there is a museum of artefacts relating to Fovant Camp in the Pembroke Arms in Fovant.

(I had heard that the it had closed but when I passed it two weeks ago (at 8 in the morning) it looked to have been re-opened. A local resident with whom I correspond confirms that the pub has been redecorated and the collection cleaned, catalogue and re-arranged.

So as Doogal says above, worth a day out. And a mile or two to the north east you can check out the former underground ammo depot at Chilmark. It's 12 years since I went past it and I believe it's now closed and sold off for some peaceful purpose, but one could then see quite a bit of the narrow-gauge railway that served the depot.