Volunteer Training Corps

[swizz]

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...showtopic=31084

Inspired by the above thread I have found myself wondering whether members of VTCs who died were commemorated by the CWGC. I've looked up four men who were killed during the Easter Rising in Dublin but, although they died in uniform and as a result of their VTC membership, they don't seem to be on the CWGC database. Is this normal? I had a look in Longworth's History of the CWGC but couldn't find anything, and wondered if anyone here knew anything.

Swizz

[Terry Denham]

The Volunteer Training Corps does not have any members recognised by CWGC.

It was legally a civilian organisation and only a few civilian organisations were recognised for such commemoration but only then if the members died on duty and of a war related cause.

[TD60]

The Volunteer Training Corps does not have any members recognised by CWGC.

It was legally a civilian organisation and only a few civilian organisations were recognised for such commemoration but only then if the members died on duty and of a war related cause.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is the mention "Kiled in Action" on their grave .

They seem to have died 'on duty'.

Then, it means that the fights in dublin are not considred as war related cause;

it was an internal British 'problem', not a fact of war.

The british soldiers buried just close to their grave are seen as died because of WW1.

Hum...

[Terry Denham]

I think you misunderstand.

Only a few civilian organisations were listed as 'Recognised Civilian Organisations'.

If a member of these organisations died whilst on duty AND of a war related cause, then they were recognised by the military authorities for commemoration by CWGC. If the organisation was not on the 'Recognised' list, they were not so commemorated - no matter how or where they died.

It has nothing to do with being in Ireland and the rules were applied throughout the UK and Empire. This system applied to all such recognised civilian organisations including the Mercantile Marine, British Red Cross, St Johns Ambulance etc. The same system applied in WW2 only to a larger list of organisations including the Home Guard.

[TD60]

OK I see .

Thanks

However I am not 100% convinced that is fair they are excluded

from CWGC care, memory and database.

I suppose the IWGC or the minstery who decided that has good reasons and arguments for those decisions. I hope it was well inspired...

Kind Regards

[swizz]

Thanks Terry - that information is really useful (and interesting!).

I agree, though, that it seems a bit unfair that soldiers killed - for example in Dublin - have CWGC commemoration, whereas VTC members who died in identical circumstances don't. But I suppose lines had to be drawn somewhere.

Thanks again,

Swizz

[Terry Denham]

Yes - It was a purely bureaucratic decision.

Whereas all deceased servicemen get commemoration no matter where or how they died (as long as it was between the qualifying dates), civilians in military roles or assisting the military had to belong to one of the approved recognised organisations to get the same commemoration - and then they still had to meet the extra qualification of dying on duty and of a war cause or the increased threat brought on by war.

Hence, some merchant seamen get a war grave and some don't (ie those that died through illness or a normal maritime accident or sinking).

If your organisation was not on the list, then no recognition was possible. Exactly the same rules applied during WW2 but the list of organisations was longer.

This will produce occasionally 'unfair' decisions but that is another discussion.

I have a list of the recognised orgaisations if anyone is interested. Email me.