Clive Maier Posted 25 June , 2003 Share Posted 25 June , 2003 I have yet to see the war diaries for my uncle Oscar's unit. I am looking forward to doing that soon. In the meantime, it would be nice to have some idea of what to expect. I understand that diaries are likely to be terse and will not refer to individuals. But did the diaries cover periods in reserve and in the rear, and would they be likely to note when drafts of men were received? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 25 June , 2003 Share Posted 25 June , 2003 Clive, if you go to www.1914-1918.net, click on the drop-down menu and select "Unit war diaries", you will see a selection. They vary enormously in style and detail. The diaries on the site are all transcribed verbatim from the originals. Here and there I have added details such as names of men mentioned as becoming casualties. These comments are in a different colour and in square brackets usually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broznitsky Posted 25 June , 2003 Share Posted 25 June , 2003 Clive, as Chris says: "They vary enormously in style and detail". From what I have seen, different officers may have written the entries at different times over a unit's service overseas. ORs are hardly ever mentioned by name, unless to mention the MM they just received. Entries for quiet times may say little more than what casualties were suffered, if any. The ones I have seen mention the drafts coming in. If the officer gets excited about a big battle, then he may go on for pages, which is fascinating. All in all, war diaries are well worth examining. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Bruce Posted 25 June , 2003 Share Posted 25 June , 2003 Clive, if you can't find what you want in the war diary of the actual unit, try going up the chain of command and also look at flanking units e.g. other battalions in the same brigade. For instance, I've found there is a better record of drafts to the battalion I'm looking at in the AQ diary for the div than in the battalion war diary. And Bde/Div diaries often have fuller details of an operation (orders, maps, etc) than the unit ones. Jock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 27 June , 2003 Share Posted 27 June , 2003 From my experience the detail in WO 95 diaires varies from unit to unit. Some mention ORs in detail, particularly when they have been wounded or killed others never mention them at all. Some diaires have annexes of all casualties after notable engagements. The movement and actions of officers are mentioned in most, even going down to going on leave. In one diary I recently read of a certain 2/Lt being admitted to hospital with piles Unfortunately said officer wasn't mentioned again - quite a memorial for a part in the Great War! Like a lot of looking up official records its down to the luck of the draw! Good luck, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 27 June , 2003 Share Posted 27 June , 2003 Like Jock I have found that the Divisional A&Q diaries are better for information about drafts - battalion diaries often forget these, unless they are large. A&Q diaries often give the monthly (or even weekly) strengths of all units, as well as monthly totals of men drafted into each unit, evacuated sick or wounded. In some cases I have found brigade diaries to give more comprehensive information thane those of their subunits. Brigade and divisional diaries are generally better on purely operational matters such as orders, timings, and they often contain after action reports submitted by their battalion commanders which are not in the battalion war diary. Other Ranks only usually get mentioned in connection with medals (and this often gets abbreviated to "2 MMs presented by General Bloggs at Brigade parade") and sometimes disciplinary offences. It does depend on the luck of the draw, and you should ideally look at all of them to get the best impression of what happened. If you have a lot of time and are trying to trace a particular action it may be worthwhile checking CAB 44 and CAB 45 which is the papers used in the official history and which consist of letters written by senior surviving officers in many battalions. You may just find an account about your gfathers unit. There are many hidden gems in here - for example two letters my grandfather wrote to the OH team about operations on the Somme by his battalion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Maier Posted 27 June , 2003 Author Share Posted 27 June , 2003 Thanks everyone for the good advice, especially about checking on flanking units and looking at a higher level than battalion. Sorry about my ignorance, but what is an A&Q diary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Bruce Posted 27 June , 2003 Share Posted 27 June , 2003 Put simply, at Div and above you will find a series of war diaries for the different staff branches of the HQ, GS = operations and intelligence AQ = personnel and logistics CRA = artillery CRE = engineers DDMS = medical and so on. Jock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted 28 June , 2003 Share Posted 28 June , 2003 Jock I just checked PROCAT for the 27th Div and there are 22 files which are just titled "27 Division". If I was after artillery, is it a matter of going through each one to find it ? Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Bruce Posted 29 June , 2003 Share Posted 29 June , 2003 Michael, if you browse the hits for 27 Div you should be able to click on the 'plus sign in a box' to drill down and find a fuller description of what is in each hit e.g. WO95/2256 contains CRA diary for 14-15 together with those for other arms and services. A much easier way is simply to look at the paper catalogues when you visit Kew, it is a lot simpler to run your eye down the printed page than faff with PROCAT Jock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 29 June , 2003 Share Posted 29 June , 2003 Michael - the descriptions on PROCAT dont seem to be as complete as you will find in the printed catalogue in the reference room. The PROCAT descriptions tend to be short on dates (often everything is 1914-1919), and it is a hassle to find subunits. It will only take 2 minutes in the ref room as soon as you get there to work out which files you need. You will find the first few boxes are all Div HQ. These will be followed by the CRA, CRE, ADDMS. You will then get each Brigade HQ (which may well include the Bde Trench Mortar Btys and Bde MG) which are then followed by its subunits. For example 47 Division has nearly 50 boxes in total: 47 Division HQ has 10 boxes covering all the operational stuff - orders, post action reports etc. WO95 2696 to 2705 47 Div A&Q come next WO95 2706 to 2707 this is then followed by the Div CRA, CRE etc .... 140 Bde and its subunits .... 141 Bde HQ has 4 boxes WO95 2733 to 2736 1/17th and 1/18th Londons WO95 2737 1/19th and 1/20th Londons WO95 2738 (TMB and MG Coys are in one of these) 142 Bde and its subunits .... All the divisions appear to be structured in the same way, though the number of boxes varies a lot which I guess reflects length of overseas service, extend to which they were weeded etc. It is worth checking other boxes in the Div if you cannot find material as stuff sometimes has been misfiled in the last 30 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted 29 June , 2003 Share Posted 29 June , 2003 Charles / Jock Thanks for the advice. I (stupidly) hadn't realised you could split the searches down further. Doh ! I'll also check out the paper catalogues on Tuesday. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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