2nd Lincolns War Diary

[jim_davies]

Happy to do look-ups in the 2nd Lincolns War Diary for the above period.

[Chris_B]

Happy to do look-ups in the 2nd Lincolns War Diary for the above period.

Jim,

If your offer is still available, I wonder if you can let me know details of 2nd Lincolns on around 1st day of Somme (with 8th Div Fricourt - Ovillers) , also is there any mention of an MM award to this man before/after 1st July:

Name: BROWN, JAMES WALKER

Initials: J W

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment: Lincolnshire Regiment

Unit Text: 2nd Bn.

Age: 28

Date of Death: 01/07/1916

Service No: 7455

Awards: MM

Additional information: Son of John Brown, of Surfleet, Spalding, Lincs.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 1 C.

Cemetery: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

London Gazette 11-11-1916, 7455 Pte. J. W. Brown, Linc. R.

With thanks,

Chris.

[jim_davies]

Hi Chris,

The offer is still open

Although there's no mention of Brown, here's what I can make out for the entries for 30 Jun/1 Jul 1916

Jun 30 1916

To assembly trenches: Moved to assembly trenches, w coy, 3 platoons front line

1 platoon Pendle Hill, x coy, 3 platoons front line

1 platoon Longbridge, y coy, 3 platoons front line

1 platoon Longbridge, z coy, 2 platoons Pendle Hill

2 platoons Longbridge. Bt HQ Waltney Tunnel

Btn in position about 2:30am, 1 Jul 1916

Jul 1 1916

In trenches opposite: Everybody was in position by 3:30am and tghe wire along the whole of our front

Ovillers unreported cut by 2:30am. 2nd Lt ? (looks like "Old") and a few men got

wounded doing this and Lt Ross (or "Rees") party had trouble owing to hostile

machine gun fire. Brigade line checked at 5:30am.

6:25am The intensive bombardment commenced to which the enemy relatilated on our front

line and assemby trenches with high explosives.

7:25am Companies "unreadable" to move forward from their assembly positions preparing

for the assault. These assualting companies getting their 1st two waves into

no-mans land, and their 3rd and 4th out at zero. These arrangements were carried

out most excellently, no hitch occuring, but casualties were fairly heavy from

machine gun fire. The support company got into our front line but suffered a lot of

casualities from shell fire.

7:30am As soon as the barrage lifted the whole assaulted. They were meet with very severe rifle fire and had to advance in rushes and return the fire. This fire seemed to coem from the Germand 2nd line and machine gun fire from the left. On reaching the German front line their found it stringly held and were met by showers of bombs. But after a very hard fight about 200 yards of German trnech were taken by 7:50am. The "unreadable" right failing to get in, and also the exclusive left where there appeared to be a gap of 70 yards although "unreadable" of platoons of the 70th Brigade joined them. The support company by this time joined in. The few officers that were left gallantly led them over the German trench to attack the second line but owing to the rifle and machinegun firecould not push on. Attempts were made to consoldiate and make blocks in the trench, but but so badly "unreadable" about that very little cover was available. From the enfilde machine gun fire and continual bombing attacks which were "unreadable" made by the enemy along the whole line and one frontal attack from the 2nd line which we replused.

9am This isolated position became "unreable' with no supports being able to reach us owing to the intense rifle and machinegun fire. On left "unreadable" drove back the remainder which by now only held about 100 yards. Had to withdraw. On reaching our line all the men that could collected were formed up and tried to push on again, but the heavy machinegun and rifle fire made the ground quite unpassable.

1pm Orders received from brigade to withdraw to Peddle and "unreadable" streets and

occupy the assemby dugouts which was done.

12 midnight We were relieved by the 6th Westt Kents and proceeded to Long Valley.

(OR 25 killed, 303 wounded, 89 missing, 25 wounded & missing)

Regards,

Jim

Edited 2 December , 2005 by jim_davies

[Chris_B]

Jim,

Many thanks for the swift response, and taking the time to type up the transcription. May be they didn't suffer quite as badly as some, but it was still pretty grim.

It's quite possible J W Brown was awarded his MM before all this. The 2nd Lincolns War Diary doesn't appear to be on line yet, so I'll ask around on the forum to see if anyone else can help with info.

Thanks again for this account of the 1st July.

Regards,

Chris.

[jim_davies]

Hi Chris,

There are a few other (8 I think) Lincs lads in the same edition of the London Gazette being awarding the MM.

Of these three died later in the war, two with the 2nd battalion, and one with the 10th (he doesn't have a Chums number-so presumably transferred to the 10th having served somewhere else first). I think it's possible that all 8 were awarded the MM for their actions with the 2nd Lincs on the Somme.

Also checked the diary for Nov 1918 no mention of awards.

Jim

[andy 1]

hi jim.

is there any chance you could have a look for me and tell me what the 2nd bn were doing on or about the 9th of july 1916.

thanks

andy

[jim_davies]

Hi Andy,

Once they were relieved after the attack they went into billets:

The entry for the 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th July is the same-"Lozinghem, training and re-organizing". SD shows one man Charles Cowlin, dying of wounds on this day.

Hope it's of help.

Jim

[andy 1]

by that was quick jim.

thanks for the reply it helps me a lot.

at this time i'm waiting for the postman to bring me a copy of the 1st bn lincolnshire regiments war diary for july 1916 from the NA its cost me 12.50 for paper copies,£64 if i wanted it digitally online.

i'm still trying to work out where my relative could have been to have been killed on the 1/7/16 he was in the 1st lincolns and is buried in gordon dump cemetery,yet every other 1st lincoln in there died on the 3/7/16.

i'm hoping the war diary might be able to tell me a bit more.

regards

andy

[jim_davies]

Good luck Andy,

I'm told (haven't seen it myself) that the 1st's war diary is meant to be detailed.

From Simpson it doesn't look like the 1st Lincols were involved too much on the 1st ( in the Divisional reserve) being used for carrying parties. Sd has a few few lads on this day, perhaps from German artillery?/

Jim

[yellow]

You will find that within the regular Battalions of the Lincolns there was much secrecy during WW1. This is why the Simpson history does not tell the true picture. Here are the 1st Battlions battle honours:

Mons

Le Cateau

The Marne

The Aisne

La Bassee

Armentieres

Messines

Ypres

Ypres 1915

Gravenstafel Ridge

St Julien

Frezenburg Ridge

Bellewaerde Ridge

Aubers Ridge

Albert

Bazentin Ridge

Flers-Courcelette

Morval

Scarpe 1917

Third Battle od Scarpe

Menin Road Ridge

BroodSiende

Passchendale

St Quentin

Bapaume

Battle of Balleul

Second Battle of Kemmel Ridge

Aisne 1918

Albert 1918

Second Battle of Aisne 1918

Battle of Bapaume

Epehy

Canal De Nord

Cambrai 1918

Selle

Sambre

The 1st Battalion did see a lot of action I can name a few examples of how very nearly the entire Battalion was wiped out even in 1918. Take a look at some of the LG entries for July 1918.

The 1st were one of the best British line Regiments prior to 1914......this is testomony to the number of awards they won in India against other regiments.

When a German officer asked the bandsmen who were left behind at Mons how many machine guns the Battalion was using.........he replied "none". The 1st Battlion was a living legend at that time......no regiment in India could out shoot them.

There is no comparison between the 1st Battalion and any other Battlion that served in the Regiment during WW1.........the 2nd are your close runners up with Croydon being the main influential figure there.

Steve.

[jim_davies]

Steve,

The 1st certainly had a "busy" war. My great-great uncle landed with the battalion Aug 1914, wounded Nov 1914, returned in early 1915, only to be wounded again at Bellewarde Ridge. Returned again but this time to the 8th battalion in time for the Somme. Remained with them until third wound April 1918. Finally went back to the 1st in 1918, and sadly killed in action Sept 1918. Often wonder if there were any other "originals" still around with him.

Jim

[yellow]

Jim the answer to your question is yes. Most of the 1st Battalion men who served the entire war from 1914 to 1918 were in the transport section. It was decided mid war to make these men up into sergeants. Their officer complained and they were to remain with with that section for the duration of the war. However it wasnt always a good unit to escape front line duty as in early 1918 there was no where to hide as the Battlion was surrounded. They gave that very officer who complained a bar to his MC for withdrawing the Battalion. That man was of course the 1st Battalion legend F. W. Masters.

Steve.

P.S. My uncle Fred Roberts was also killed with the 1st Battlion he DOW wounds on the 9/18.....how sad considering he served constantly from 1915 in the line. You might also have some information on him as he was 4th Battlion to begin with.

[jim_davies]

Hi Steve,

Only thing I have is that given Fred's four digit number that he would have enlisted around 4-6 Aug 1914. A lot of these guys who enlisted at this time had apparently served with the old volunteers prior to 1908 but not joined the TF.

I would be very interested if you know when he might have been renumbered (I'm thinking late summer 1916, but haven't been able to find much on the TF lads transferred to the regular/new army) or indeed when he might of gone to France.

Jim

[yellow]

Hi Jim,

I can answer all your questions.

Fred had no prior military service he joined Aug 1914 age 19. His switch came about just after the German Spring offensive of 1918. He was an officer cadet at the time but was rushed back due to all the trouble. They made him up to corporal. Sadly I dont know where Fred was wounded.......the family said he was shot twice in the stomach by a machine gun. It must of been a slow and lingering death if that were the case.

I guess he must of been at the redoubt with rest of the 4th.

Steve.

[jim_davies]

Hi Jim,

I can answer all your questions.

Fred had no prior military service he joined Aug 1914 age 19. His switch came about just after the German Spring offensive of 1918. He was an officer cadet at the time but was rushed back due to all the trouble. They made him up to corporal. Sadly I dont know where Fred was wounded.......the family said he was shot twice in the stomach by a machine gun. It must of been a slow and lingering death if that were the case.

I guess he must of been at the redoubt with rest of the 4th.

Steve.

Thanks Steve.

Jim

[snailybailey]

Hi, doubt if the diary lists any 'other ranks' but I'm interested in two brothers William Charles Gregory and Albert Gregory both 2nd Bttn and both KIA on 9th May 1915, not sure what battle that may have been...any info?

cheers

Glyn

[jim_davies]

Glyn,

I don't have the diary for the period that you're interested in. However, Chris has posted on the main site :

http://www.1914-1918.net/Diaries/wardiary-2lincs.htm

Jim

[Kevin Stillyards]

Hi all,

Just out of interest the three men mentioned in the thread W G Gregory, A Gregory and J W Brown are all one the 2nd Battalions embarkation list and arrived in France on 5/11/14.

Kev