Raster Scanning Posted 7 May Share Posted 7 May (edited) Is there someone who might be able to suggest the battalion of this Cheshire Officer from the patch? two colour horizontal split. I can then trawl through battalion resources to hopefully name him. Thanks Edited 7 May by Raster Scanning additional tag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 7 May Share Posted 7 May 3 hours ago, Raster Scanning said: Is there someone who might be able to suggest the battalion of this Cheshire Officer from the patch? two colour horizontal split. I can then trawl through battalion resources to hopefully name him. Thanks I can’t find anything listed for any Kitchener (‘Service’) Battalion or Regular Battalion, which suggests that he’s from a Territorial Force unit. Forum member @poona guard is an SME in this area and might perhaps be able to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poona guard Posted 7 May Share Posted 7 May Do you have a date for the photo or where it was taken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raster Scanning Posted 7 May Author Share Posted 7 May (edited) Thanks both for your replies. Sadly it is a picture I have had for years mounted to some brown paper so I cannot see the back even. I am in the process of carefully removing the backing paper so if anything is on the back I will post it here, but I suspect it is unlikely. No information on location of studio or date. Sorry. Edited 7 May by Raster Scanning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 7 May Share Posted 7 May (edited) 4 hours ago, Raster Scanning said: Thanks both for your replies. Sadly it is a picture I have had for years mounted to some brown paper so I cannot see the back even. I am in the process of carefully removing the backing paper so if anything is on the back I will post it here, nut I suspect it is unlikely. No information on location of studio or date. Sorry. The shape reminds me of the 29th Infantry Division, whose badge was usually worn in that upper arm position, but was coloured all red. How positive are you that there’re two colours divided horizontally as you state? Edited 7 May by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raster Scanning Posted 7 May Author Share Posted 7 May Hello. I only stated it appears to be 2 colours from how it appears in the picture. To my eyes there is a clear difference, with the top half appearing darker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 7 May Share Posted 7 May 1 minute ago, Raster Scanning said: Hello. I only stated it appears to be 2 colours from how it appears in the picture. To my eyes there is a clear difference, with the top half appearing darker. Okay I understand. I can’t say with confidence that I see that too, but I don’t know if there was such a thing for a TF battalion of the Cheshires. I suggest that you look to see if there were any Cheshire Regt units with the 29th Division to either rule it in, or out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poona guard Posted 7 May Share Posted 7 May The question is do we think it is red or yellow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 7 May Share Posted 7 May (edited) 5 minutes ago, poona guard said: The question is do we think it is red or yellow? It looks dark enough to be red I think. If I recall correctly yellow presents as a medium tone in comparison with red that shows a little darker. Edited 7 May by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 7 May Share Posted 7 May I’ve looked at the photo a number of times today and I can only see a triangle in a single colour, I really can’t see a bottom half in a different colour. The film process of the era (orthochromatic) I am partially familiar with due to topics featuring identification of medal ribbons . Perhaps the red or yellow patch discussion could be assisted by comparison with a photograph that has a confirmed item of a specific colour. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poona guard Posted 7 May Share Posted 7 May Good idea Simon. Anyone got one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 7 May Share Posted 7 May Not me I’m afraid. Lancashire Fusiliers hackle springs to mind for yellow. I don’t yet know how shades of a specific colour vary in photography of the era. Was it a case of the paler the actual colour, the darker it appears in print? Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 7 May Share Posted 7 May (edited) 34 minutes ago, poona guard said: Good idea Simon. Anyone got one? Here’s an example using Gordon Highlanders yellow facings on scarlet full dress (see below the medium tone it creates): Edited 7 May by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 7 May Share Posted 7 May search ORTHO or ORTHOCHROMATIC. Unfortunately two other factors govern grey shades on period photos: pastel v black mixtures, and surface reflectance./ reflectivity/ texture. For the record I can only see one shade of very dark grey on the OP shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 7 May Share Posted 7 May (edited) And this one of the Hampshire Regiment, a little darker here, but still I think within the mid tone (note yellow cuffs contrast with scarlet sleeve) when compared with the darker badge on subject officer. Edited 7 May by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle of loos Posted 7 May Share Posted 7 May 4 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: The shape reminds me of the 29th Infantry Division, whose badge was usually worn in that upper arm position, but was coloured all red. How positive are you that there’s two colours divided horizontally as you state? good evening, this is one picture who are taking this week end in Beaumont Hamel whithout the sun : 29th Monument : michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 7 May Share Posted 7 May Michel, that really is a good thought. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 7 May Share Posted 7 May 27 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: And this one of the Hampshire Regiment, a little darker here, but still I think within the mid tone (note yellow cuffs contrast with scarlet sleeve) when compared with the darker badge on subject officer. This is a good example of the possible effect of light falling on texture. Yes the yellow cuff is paler than the adjacent scarlet sleeve, but the cuff grey tone is very much like the tunic scarlet grey tone high up the chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 7 May Share Posted 7 May (edited) 14 minutes ago, battle of loos said: good evening, this is one picture who are taking this week end in Beaumont Hamel whithout the sun : 29th Monument : michel Thank you Michel. It is a fine and relatively well known monument. 5 minutes ago, Muerrisch said: This is a good example of the possible effect of light falling on texture. Yes the yellow cuff is paler than the adjacent scarlet sleeve, but the cuff grey tone is very much like the tunic scarlet grey tone high up the chest. Yes I realise that there are tonal values according to light and shade. I’m trying not to get too complicated and focus in specifically on the comparison with the cloth arm badge on subject officer, as proposed by Simon. Edited 7 May by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 7 May Share Posted 7 May How about a confirmed orthochromatic colour patch against khaki uniform as opposed to scarlet? It might help. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 8 May Share Posted 8 May 2 hours ago, mancpal said: How about a confirmed orthochromatic colour patch against khaki uniform as opposed to scarlet? It might help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KENDO Posted 8 May Share Posted 8 May Hi, There is an Illustration in Beckhurst's WW1 British Battle insignia book of a 7 Cheshire wearing a yellow triangle on the sleeve and back with a diamond on the helmet. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 8 May Share Posted 8 May 31 minutes ago, KENDO said: Hi, There is an Illustration in Beckhurst's WW1 British Battle insignia book of a 7 Cheshire wearing a yellow triangle on the sleeve and back with a diamond on the helmet. Ken That’s very helpful Ken, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KENDO Posted 8 May Share Posted 8 May 😀👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrenchrat22 Posted 8 May Share Posted 8 May If he was a Territorial Force, then the numerial T would appear on the collar underneath the Acorn and Oakleafs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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