What happen to the 24Bn Welsh Regt and or other Welsh Regts 21 April 1917

[stevenbecker]

Mates,

So as to mix with another question I place this here

I pose the question what happened on this day and were these men with the Camel Corps went it did?

Rees    David John    230243    Pte    Tos possibly 6Co? shown 2Bn ICC killed by bomb reported bombed in air attack near El Kutshan buried Gaza War Cemetery Egypt Ex 1/1 Pembroke Yeo (4307) & 24Bn Welsh Regt (230243) 231 Bde 74 Div    KIA 21-4-17        2nd Gaza    St Claears Carmarthenshire

Southgate    Frederick    320271    Pte    Tos possibly HQ/2Bn ICC killed by bomb reported bombed in air attack near El Kutshan buried Gaza War Cemetery Palestine Ex 1/1 Pembroke Yeo (4353) & 24Bn Welsh Regt    KIA 21-4-17        2nd Gaza    Pembrokeshire Wales

Thomas    Walter Rowland    320820    Pte    possibly Tos 6Co? shown 2Bn ICC KIA 1-12-17 buried Jerusalem War Cemetery Palestine Ex 1/1 Glamorgan Yeo (1997) to 24Bn Welsh Regt (Pembroke and Glamorgan Yeo)     KIA 1-12-17         Bald Hill    Llanedeyrn Glamorganshire
 

Were they in the ICC at time of death or were they still in the 24th Bn?

The answer from Matlock shows they were;

For Rees and Southgate

Pension records at WFA/Fold 3 show final unit as Welsh Regiment

Pension records at WFA/Fold 3 show final unit as Welsh Regiment / 24th Bn

I record their deaths amoung the many losses the 2Bn ICC suffered this day.

War diary shows

while at Sheik abbas Ridge they were shelled with 3 officers Wounded and 16 men killed or wounded, the Bn moved to Kutshan in the afternoon where they were bombed by an aircraft with a further 2 men killed 1 DoW and 2 wounded

A check of what records I could gather give these men lost that day?

Williams    John    SE/13396    Vet/Sgt    shown att 14Co 8-16 to 10-16 to 9Co WIA 21-4-17 arm bomb reported bombed in air attack near El Kutshan at 2nd Gaza Ex Army Veterinary Corps    WIA 21-4-17

Burlace    Henry Edward Issac    845    Pte    shown 9Co ICC killed at 2nd Gaza buried Gaza War Cemetery Palestine Ex 1/3 County of London Yeo (Sharpshooters) (845) and Corps of Hussars (265118)     KIA 21-4-17

Lewis    Lewis W    2155    Pte    Tos possibly 6Co? ICC shown 9Co WIA 21-4-17 shrapnel at 2nd Gaza Ex 1/1 Pembroke Yeo and Corps of Hussars    WIA 21-4-17

White    Frederick William    2370    L/Cpl    possibly Tos 6Co? 5-16 ICC to BHQ killed at 2nd Gaza shown 2Bn ICC buried Gaza War Cemetery Egypt Ex 1/1 Montgomery Yeo (2370) and 25Bn Royal Welsh Fusiliers (Montgomeryshire and Welsh Horse Yeomanry) (355257) age 30    KIA 21-4-17

Nicholls    Ernest Frederick    2432    Pte    Tos 9Co ICC killed at 2nd Gaza buried Gaza War Cemetery Palestine Ex 1/1 City of London Yeo (Rough Riders) (40258) or 1/3 County of London Yeo (Sharpshooters) age 22    KIA 21-4-17

Hext    Herbert R.    2706    Pte    Tos 9Co ICC WIA 21-4-17 back shrapnel at 2nd Gaza Ex 1/1 County of London Yeo (Middlesex Hussars) (301851)    WIA 21-4-17

Leon    Louis    3156    Pte    Tos 9Co ICC WIA 21-4-17 face & body shrapnel at 2nd Gaza Ex 1/1 City of London Yeo (Rough Riders) (40646)    WIA 21-4-17

Holmes    Charles Robert    3316    L/Cpl    possibly 5Co shown 2Bn ICC WIA 21-4-17 leg bomb reported bombed in air attack near El Kutshan died from wounds buried Gaza War Cemetery Palestine Ex 1/4 Sussex Regt (4/3316) (TF/200965)    DoW 21-4-17

Milne    James M    50266    L/Cpl    Tos 7Co 7-16 WIA 21-4-17 foot shrapnel at 2nd Gaza Ex 1/1st Ayrshire Yeo (2028) and Corps of Hussars    WIA 21-4-17

Searl    Joseph H.    50781    Pte    Tos 9Co ICC 4-16 WIA 21-4-17 shrapnel at 2nd Gaza Ex 1/1 County of London Yeo (Middlesex Hussars) (3317) and Corps of Hussars to 1/1 Nottingham Yeo (Sherwood Rangers) (276930)    WIA 21-4-17

Bracey    Maurice Henry    50882    Sgt    Tos 9Co ICC 4-16 WIA 21-4-17 shell shock at 2nd Gaza Ex (1/3) City of London Yeo (1621) to Royal Flying Corps (319746) prom 2/Lt Royal Air Force    WIA 21-4-17

King    George G    50913    Pte    Tos 9Co ICC WIA 21-4-17 back shrapnel at 2nd Gaza Ex Worcester Yeo (2285) or 1/1 Warwick Yeo (2492) and Corps of Hussars (50913)    WIA 21-4-17

Ripley    Henry    50975    Pte    Tos 5Co ICC 5-16 WIA 21-4-17 leg & buttock bomb reported bombed in air attack near El Kutshan Ex 1/4 Sussex Regt (3/4622) and Corps of Hussars (4075)    WIA 21-4-17

Davies    Joseph    51050    Pte    Tos 5Co? 5-16 to HQ/2Bn WIA 21-4-17 foot (minor) bomb reported bombed in air attack near El Kutshan Ex 1/5 Welsh Regt (1850) and Corps of Hussars    WIA 21-4-17

Clarke    Leonard    51067    L/Cpl    Tos possibly (5Co) shown HQ/2Bn WIA 19-4-17 shoulder shrapnel at 2nd Gaza & WIA 21-4-17 buttock reported bombed in air attack near El Kutshan to Sgt MID - reason not stated Ex 1/7 Cheshire Regt (2160) and Corps of Hussars     WIA 19-4-17 WIA 21-4-17

Barron    Ernest    51394    Pte    shown Tos 6Co WIA 21-4-17 back shrapnel at 2nd Gaza Ex 1/1 Cheshire Yeo (931) and Corps of Hussars and 10Bn Kings Shropshire Light Infantry (230683)     WIA 21-4-17

Brading    F.A.    56876    A/Cpl    Tos 9Co ICC WIA 21-4-17 arm shrapnel at 2nd Gaza died from wounds Ex 1/3 County of London Yeo (Sharpshooters) (1592) and Corps of Hussars to Royal Flying Corps (319014)    WIA 21-4-17

Alexander    James    295416    Pte    Tos 7Co ICC killed at 2nd Gaza buried Gaza War Cemetery Egypt Ex 1/1 Lanark Yeo (2410) shown 12Bn Royal Scots Fusliliers (Ayr and Lanark Yeomanry) (295416) farm worker age 21    KIA 21-4-17

Clark    Thomas Gibson Carmichael    295635    Pte    Tos 7Co ICC killed at 2nd Gaza buried Gaza War Cemetery Egypt Ex 1/1st Ayrshire Yeo and shown 12Bn Royal Scots Fusliliers (Ayr and Lanark Yeomanry) (810)  age 22    KIA 21-4-17

Rees    David John    320243    Pte    Tos possibly 6Co? shown 2Bn ICC killed by bomb reported bombed in air attack near El Kutshan buried Gaza War Cemetery Egypt Ex 1/1 Pembroke Yeo (4307) & 24Bn Welsh Regt (230243) 231 Bde 74 Div    KIA 21-4-17

Southgate    Frederick    320271    Pte    Tos possibly HQ/2Bn ICC killed by bomb reported bombed in air attack near El Kutshan buried Gaza War Cemetery Palestine Ex 1/1 Pembroke Yeo (4353) & 24Bn Welsh Regt    KIA 21-4-17

Smith    J    345304    Pte    Tos 6Co ICC WIA 21-4-17 back shrapnel at 2nd Gaza Ex 24Bn Royal Welsh Fusiliers    WIA 21-4-17

Marsh    Frederick A        2/Lt    Tos 9Co 4-16 WIA 21-4-17 back & leg shrapnel at 2nd Gaza rtn from UK leave att ICC depot 8-18 shown rtn 9Co 9-18 Ex 1/1 Worcester Yeo (2022) and Corps of Hussars    WIA 21-4-17

Orchardson    Charles Moxon Quiller        T/Capt    Tos 7Co ICC 7-16 to 2ic 7Co 8-16 MC - for actions at Romani to OC 9Co 3-17 (from Winterton to 2ic 2Bn) WIA 21-4-17 head & arm shrapnel at 2nd Gaza died from wounds buried Port Said War Cemetery Egypt Ex 1/1 County of London Yeo (Middlesex Hussars) (3471) prom 2/Lt    WIA 21-4-17 DoW 26-4-17
 

There was also an Aussie doctor from the RAMC attached to the Bn also wounded

Some how a number of 24Bn Welsh Regt and other Regts got mixed into the pot 

So were they with the Camel Corps when wounded or killed or else where?

Edited 3 May by stevenbecker

[jay dubaya]

Burial return for Rees and Southgate shows attached to ICC from 24th Welsh. Soldiers Effects Register confirms both attached No.6 Coy ICC

image from De Ruvigny's RoH

[stevenbecker]

Jay,

Thank you Yes, He does show ICC, but the paper also mentions transfered to the Welsh Regt

So was he killed with the Welsh Regt or ICC?

And were the other shown with British Regts also transfered?

[stevenbecker]

On checking this out I found all these men shown in the 2nd Camel Bn war diary listed as casualties during that peroid

So I can confirm for my self that they were all ICC members when wounded or killed.

[jay dubaya]

The only additional information I can find for Rees and Southgate is both were transferred to 2nd Bn Welsh Rgt. Both are listed as such on the CWGC database which appears odd since the 2nd battalion were in France.

[stevenbecker]

Yes Jay that is the 2Bn ICC or the British 2nd Camel Bn.

When they arrived at the 2Bn to be Tos is still unconfirmed as most arrived early when the Camel Companies were being formed 

25-5-16  6Co under Maj Knoop (4th (South Wales  & Welsh Border Yeomanry) Mtd Bde - 1/1 Cheshire, 1/1 Shropshire, 1/1 Montgomery, 1/1 Glemorgan, 1/1 Pembroke & 1/1 Denbigh Yeo) arrived ICC depot

26-5-16  5Co under Capt Wilson (53 Div (Welsh)  - (158 Bde - 1/1 Hereford, 1/5 to 1/7 Royal Welsh Fusiliers, 159 Bde - 1/4 & 1/6 Cheshire & 1/4 & 1/5 Welsh Regt, & 160 Bde - Monmouth, 1/4 Sussex, 2/4 Royal West Kent, 2/10 Middlesex & 2/4 Queens West Surrey Regt) arrived ICC depot (5Co war dairy also shows 1/6 Essex Regt)

But when the men arrived from the 24Bn Welsh Regt

As the unit (24Bn Welsh) was formed in Feb 1917 then possibly between then and April 1917?

Of cause that surposes that the men did come from that Regt and not the Yeomanry and the Welsh Rget is an admin unit?

I have some men who are record in like units, but never got Tos of them?